BBC World Service presenter and journalist, converses with Sadhguru, yogi, mystic and visionary humanitarian on our destinies as individuals, as institutions, as businesses, and as a nation. Are we drivers or passengers to our own and Uganda’s destiny? Together they negotiate the challenges of ‘getting there’ in Uganda.

In Conversation with the Mystic is an exclusive series of interactive episodes where eminent personalities from various walks of life explore a range of subjects with Sadhguru. Amidst engaging stories and witty jokes, Sadhguru bridges the gap between the modern and the mystical and opens the door to deeper dimensions of life.

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Full Transcript:

Sadhguru chants Sanskrit chant Jananam Sukhadam…

Sadhguru: Good evening. Good evening everyone.

Alan Kasujja: You know, you really need to explain certain things to me today. Some of the things that have been happening here that don’t make sense to me. Thank you very much by the way for joining us in this conversation. Let’s start with the lighting of... ____ (Unclear) lit by Sudhir and the rest of them, what does that mean?

Sadhguru: An oil lamp, if you create a certain amount of fire, it creates... After all, the entire existence, the whole universe, including yourself and myself and everybody else, is just a play of five elements of earth, water, air, fire and space. So fire – just you get fired up (Laughs).

Alan Kasujja: Ah (Laughter)! Okay. And then the chant, the two-minute chant. And that was preceded by some motions of your hands. And this is me being curious. I’m sure there’ll be a lot of other people curious about what’s going on, so that we get a better understanding. Any curious people at all? Yeah? Almost everybody’s curious about what’s going on. So then the chant, what was the chant, what were you saying there?

Sadhguru: The chant is about this. Birth is sweet – you know, we’re born and life is on and suddenly a child is bubbling with life, it’s a very sweet happening. But death is compassion. People think death is some kind of a terrible thing. I want you to imagine, suppose you can’t die, what would you do?

Alan Kasujja: You’re saying death is not a bad thing?

Sadhguru: Hmm?

Alan Kasujja: It’s not a bad thing, death?

Sadhguru: No, I’m asking you, suppose you could not die, what would you do? The best thing about life is... The best thing about life is, you will never fail because everybody shall pass (Laughter/Applause).

Alan Kasujja: I needed to get these things out of the way (Sadhguru laughs) before we begin our conversation because...

Sadhguru: And… And the next part of the chant is… We may understand life in so many different ways. Essentially, it's a certain play of time and energy. Time is slipping away. As we sit here, it’s slipping away. We may think many things in our minds, socially we may think we’re doing many things. But as far as this body is concerned, it is making its journey straight to the grave, without wavering for a moment. As we sit here, it is moving in that direction. So the only way you can maximize life is by tweaking up your energy levels in a certain way. If you live for the same amount of time, till... still you lived more because this combination of time and energy… Time is anyway flowing but you can play with energy in such a way that you can raise the nature of your life, the experience of your life, the profoundness of your life. And above all, move from many entanglements, which seem to define and describe life for most people, towards a... a limitless sense of freedom or boundlessness within you. This is not because you are not bound by time, you’re still bound by time. But because you’ve tweaked your energy in a certain way, suddenly you look like you’re above that.

Alan Kasujja: Interesting. Sadhguru, it’s an honor to talk to you and thank you very much for making time to come to Uganda. And you know, the most obvious questions that will be in many people’s minds and some of them might be here actually – is who’s this guy, you know. Who is he? He has a long beard, I described him… I described you to some people...

Sadhguru: You’re trying too

Alan Kasujja: No, so who’s this guy? And so when they come in here and there’s this whole setup and there’s this glowing tribute with someone saying that you’re as powerful as an... as the uni... you know, power extends across the universe, I thought to myself, “Is this guy god? Who is this guy?” And it would be interesting if you helped us understand who you are and where you come from and how you ended up in Uganda (Laughter/Applause)?

Sadhguru: You’re asking for a long story (Laughter).

Alan Kasujja: We have time (Laughter).

Sadhguru: I... I’m just seeing how to abridge the story (Laughs). See, I grew up being a super skeptic super, super skeptic. I have a million questions about everything. I did not identify myself with my family, nor the local religion, nor the social structures, nor the political structures, nor even the nationality of where I was born. Because I did not identify myself with anything, though I was involved with everything, I did not belong to anything, which gave me a certain freedom of looking at everything the way it is. Because the moment you get identified with something, you become prejudiced in a certain way, you look at everything from that context. So I had no context, I was just a bursting life. And as I was telling you, restless – restless not because of anything, I was very ha... joyful and peaceful, that was not a (an?) issue, restless because I knew there is something more but I did not know what that something more is. So it kind of drove me to all kinds of places. I crisscrossed India on my motorcycle. But then, you know… I was probably nineteen, almost twenty at that time. I went to the Nepalese border. Till then, I did not know there is something called a passport. Today a five-year-old kid would know (Laughs).

Alan Kasujja: Really?

Sadhguru: I did not know. I’ve been riding since I’m eleven, without license. When I became eighteen, I got my license and I thought that’s my passport to the world (Laughs). Suddenly they stopped me and asked, “Where’s your passport?” I said, “What is that?” They said, “There’s something else you need to cross the border.” So I came all the way back to South India. Then I decided I’ll equip myself with the needed money and whatever the documents needed and I’m going to ride around the world. So for this I started a business. I thought I’ll make some money. Then...

Alan Kasujja: What business?

Sadhguru: Initially I started a farm, then I got into construction, then I got into brick-making. And in about five years’ time, I became very successful. I had my hands in about half-a-dozen businesses. For those days, I was very successful, by those standards. So everybody is clapping their hands and saying, “You’re doing great.” So, I’m in this kind of state where I’m cocky and… You know, when everything is working your way, the planets don’t go around the sun, they go around you (Few laugh). So all the planets were spinning around me and I’m... everybody is saying, “You’re great.” So I’m going on like this. One afternoon, between two business meetings, I had... Please if you can keep your cameras down, please, it’s... It’ll be posted on the YouTube. You can download it, okay (Few laugh)? Don’t waste your time, be with me (Laughs). One afternoon, between two business meetings, I had nothing much to do. So I come from a town called Mysore. Are people familiar with Mysore? Mysore city?

Participants: Yes.

Alan Kasujja: Almost everybody, this is Kampala though

Sadhguru: So (Laughs), there’s a small hill in Mysore called Chamundi Hill. The culture and the tradition of the time, especially for the youth was – if we want to test our motorcycles, we went up Chamundi hill, if we want to party, we went up Chamundi Hill.

Alan Kasujja: To party?

Sadhguru: Yeah.

Alan Kasujja: You used to party (Laughter)?

Sadhguru: I... Right now, I’m always in a party (Laughter). Can’t you see (Laughs)? So, if you fall in love, you got to go up Chamundi Hill, if you fall out, you must go up Chamundi Hill (Laughter/Applause).

Alan Kasujja: How many times... How many times did you make that trip?

Sadhguru: Ah (Says dismissively) (Laughter). And if you have nothing to do, you have to go up Chamundi Hill (Laughter/Applause). So on this afternoon, I had nothing much to do, so I rode up Chamundi Hill. I know this hill very well, I’ve trekked in these hills, I’ve camped in these hills, I’ve... As a seven, eight-year-old child... Why am I telling you all this? If I found ten rupees in those days, I would just leave a note and I would vanish into the jungle.

Alan Kasujja: It’s called theft, right?

Sadhguru: Hmm? No.

Alan Kasujja: No, helping yourself to it.

Sadhguru: No, no, it was given to me. If I had ten rupees, I’m gone.

Alan Kasujja: Oh!

Sadhguru: And from the age of seven, I earned my own pocket money right through (Laughs), never borrowed... never took any money from my parents, so don’t worry about theft (Laughter). The thing is, I went off into the hills. If I had enough food for four days, I’m gone for four days. They’re searching all over, police complaints, looking all over the town. One thing they don’t know is, I’m in the jungle.

Alan Kasujja: Doing what?

Sadhguru: Oh, I walked around, familiarized wy... myself with every other life, I caught a bunch of snakes, I caught all kinds of insects, I... I was learning life, paying attention to all kinds of life. There’s more life in the jungle than in Kampala, you know (Laughter)? More variety, I mean (Laughs), and more numbers too. So I know this place very well. So that afternoon, I went and sat up on a rock that I was... very familiar to me. My eyes were still open. I’ve been practicing yoga since twelve years of age but that was mainly for physical prowess and mental prowess, which it de... definitely did give me, it did set me apart among any group of people. But I never knew there is something else to it. That afternoon, I sat there, my eyes were still open. Till that moment, I thought this is me and that is somebody. I have no issues with that somebody but this is me and that is someone else. Suddenly I did not know which is me and which is not me. The very air I breathe, the rock I was sitting upon, the atmosphere around me, everything became me. I thought this madness lasted for about maybe ten-fifteen minutes but when I came back to my normal senses, about four-and-a-half hours had passed. For the first time in my adult life, tears – me and tears were impossible – tears are flowing to a point my shirt is all wet. I’ve always been peaceful and happy, life is working out the way I want, I’m young and successful and no problems. It is just that every cell in my body was bursting with ecstasy. Tears are just dripping like this. So when I shook my skeptical head and asked what’s happening to me, the only thing that my mind could tell me was, maybe I’m going off my rocker.

Alan Kasujja: Which happens (Sadhguru laughs).

Sadhguru: So when I spoke to the closest of my friends and tried to tell them something is happening to me, the sa… the questions that came to me is only this – “What did you drink? What did you pop?” you know (Laughter)? What... Why I’m saying this is, I had no context of any kind. Something was happening within me for which I had no any kind of knowledge, there was nobody around me to tell me what this is about. All I knew is I’ve hit a goldmine and I don’t want to lose it because if I simply sit like this, two minutes… I feel it’s two minutes, seven-eight hours have just passed away like that. Once I sat like this and I thought it’s twenty-five, thirty minutes but when I opened my eyes, it's thirteen days gone by.

Alan Kasujja: You sat in one place for thirteen days?

Sadhguru: Yes. I... I sat there only for twenty-five, thirty minutes in my experience. By the time I opened my eyes, there was a huge crowd. India being what it is, they were pulling my legs and asking (Laughs) what’ll happen to their business, when will their daughters get married, and all this stuff (Laughter).

Alan Kasujja: And... And... And... And... You still get a lot of that – when is my daughter getting married and what’s happening to my... to my business?

Sadhguru: I don’t tell them anymore when their daughters will get married (Laughs). It’s the daughter’s business, when she gets married (Laughter/Applause).

Alan Kasujja: And then, that’s an interesting story, it begins there, ends up in Uganda now, we’re sitting down in front...

Sadhguru: Hey, I’m not ending up here (Laughter).

Alan Kasujja: You’re not. So we’re in Uganda at the moment.

Sadhguru: Yeah.

Alan Kasujja: How did... Why Uganda? How did you end up here? Okay, you say you’re not ending up here, I understand that (Sadhguru laughs) but why Uganda?

Sadhguru: Africa has been on my mind for some time but my schedules have been so killing that you know, it’s not been possible to stop over in Africa. So when we thought which country or when people started inviting us here… I always go everywhere by invitation. so the invitations here were strong, the ambassador of India and the Mehta family and many others, who have done programs… All the business magnates here, they all did their Inner Engineering some time ago because some of our teachers came here and taught programs. Since then, there has been a strong pitch. So, we took this week off and we’re in Africa. Not just Uganda, I’m also touching Kenya and South Africa.

Alan Kasujja: Let’s give the Sadhguru a round of applause, ladies and gentlemen (Applause) for… And now…

Sadhguru: What’s that for?

Alan Kasujja: Yeah, because you’re here, you’re welcome. Now let’s talk about Uganda and (Laughter)... When I was trying to prepare myself for this conversation, I was wondering why should I be talking to you about Uganda because, you know, your realities are different, aren’t they? This is Uganda, it has its fair share of challenges, you don’t know Uganda very well and yet I’m here trying to talk to you about Uganda...

Sadhguru: I may not know Uganda very well... I may not know Uganda very well, I know human beings perfectly well, wherever the hell they are (Laughs) (Applause). Wherever they are, fundamentally they are same. It’s just different cultural expressions, different languages, different styles of doing things. But fundamentally, wherever you go, human problems and human aspirations are same.

Alan Kasujja: What are the most common ones do you think?

Sadhguru: Com...

Alan Kasujja: The most common problems or challenges that human beings face...

Sadhguru: The most fundamental problem with human beings is, what they need to fix within themselves, they’re trying to fix the entire world for that (Applause). This is happening everywhere. People are talking about world peace, but they can’t sit in one place for one minute peacefully (Laughter), but they’re talking (Laughs) about making the world peaceful. It’s never going to work. If you don’t know how to keep your mind feace… peaceful, how are you going to make the world peaceful? What you see in the world is just a larger manifestation of what’s happening in individual minds. So, if we just want to do a political slogan, we can shout, “World peace!” and go away. But if we’re truly interested, then we have to have a lifelong commitment of bringing peace to individual people. Without individual salvation, there is no universal salvation.

Alan Kasujja: And you make an important point because Uganda is trying to transform itself. We’re trying to come from where we are now, which is a country this... that’s struggling in many respects. It’s done well in many ways but it also still has a long way to go. So it begins with the individual, isn’t it?

Sadhguru: So when you say long way to go, where do you want to go? Do you want to become another state in United States (Laughter)? Is that what you’re aspiring for?

Alan Kasujja: I wish President Museveni was here, President Museveni would have answered that question (Laughter).

Sadhguru: No. Mr. T is coming, okay?

Alan Kasujja: Okay (Sadhguru laughs).

Sadhguru: So, what I’m saying is, it’s very important, when I look at a country like this, which is naturally so beautiful… Nature has been immensely kind to you, you don’t know what it means to live in harsh conditions of nature. This is a beautiful, beautiful country. I know if you go by... Right now, the world is on a madness of everything bigger – bigger home, bigger car, bigger this, bigger that. Instead of all this everything making bigger, I think in Uganda (Laughs) you should think how to have a bigger lake.

Alan Kasujja: A bigger lake?

Sadhguru: Bigger lake.

Alan Kasujja: That’s more important than a bigger house?

Sadhguru: Because if you have all these other things bigger, your lake will shrink. This has happened… In India, we’re beginning to suffer this seriously. In 1947, when we got Independence, how much per capita potable water we had, today we have only eighteen percent of that. They’re saying by 2025, we will have only seven percent. This means Indians will be having bath in bottles, not in tubs. So this is where the world is going. When nature has been good to you, keeping it that way is the most important thing for the well-being of the people (Applause). The thing is, for the human beings, if they’re well-nourished and there is a beautiful atmosphere around them and their aspirations are tailored according to the nature of what’s happening around them, it’s better than to go the way America has gone. Because I want you to understand, those aspirations and those standards were set up when they believed five percent of the people will rob the ninety-five percent of the people to create the comforts and conveniences that they have. Today, the Living Earth Statistics says that if we have to provide what an average American citizen has to 7.3 billion people, we need four-and-a-half planets. But we have only half of it left

Alan Kasujja: And as a result of that... You know, you say that we need to make things smaller but I want to be like Sudhir (Laughter). I want to have a big house, I want to own Munyonyo, I want to be able to send my children to the best schools possible, you know, whas... How do I do that while maintaining the balance that you’re talking about?

Sadhguru: See, this is why in the world, if... if we really want to... want to be giving a world to the next generation of people or we want to hand over a ruin to next generation of people, this is something we have to make up our minds because this is one of the most important responsibilities we have as a generation of people, that is... See, first of all, we need to understand, we are just baton carriers. We’re just a small pop-up on this planet and we will pop out, okay? So this small pop-up lives here as if you are the last generation on the planet. No, one of the most important things in our lives is, how the planet was given to us, how life was given to us, how we are, we must leave the next generation in at least one step better place than where we are, otherwise we have failed as a generation, there’s no question about it.

Alan Kasujja: That is easy to say when you have food in your stomach.

Sadhguru: Yes, that’s why I’m saying.

Alan Kasujja: Without food in your stomach, I don’t care about the future generation.

Sadhguru: Yes.

Alan Kasujja: I... I’m keen to make sure that my realities are taken care of.

Sadhguru: To have food in the stomach, you don’t have to destroy the planet, you have to nourish the planet. Food comes from the planet, not from the supermarket (Laughter/Applause). So, to... to feed the population on this planet, the way I see the soil and the atmosphere and the climate the way it is, I’m telling you, this East Africa can be the breadbaspect... basket for the entire world, because twelve months of a year you can grow crops here (Applause). If you destroy this, you will not be able to grow food even for yourself after some time. This is happening seriously in India. We have a 12,000-year history of agriculture in South India. This is probably not known to most people – 12,000 years of agriculture. Certain communities have been farming the same land for over 8-10,000 years. But today, in one generation, the soil condition is becoming in such a way, there’s an alarming situation that in fifteen-twenty years’ time, we may not be able to grow anything because the animals have been removed, chemicals have been pumped in, machines are roaring all the time. Machines don’t replenish the soil, it take animals, it takes plants, it takes trees to replenish the soil. So, who we are (Laughs)… The very body that you carry is just soil, isn’t it? Hello?

Participants: Yes.

Sadhguru: You must get it from me now, otherwise one day you’ll anyway get it from the maggots and it’ll be too late (Laughter). It’s very important to understand, who we are is just this soil. Now, it is easy to talk when there is food in the stomach. This is what I’m saying. To put food in the stomach for all the seven-billion people, is not a challenge if we creep… keep the planet in a certain way. And above all, at the beginning of twentieth century, we were 1.6 billion people. Why have we become 7.3 billion people in one century? What’ wrong with us? Irresponsible reproduction, isn’t it (Applause)? Now, the reason… one main reason is the life expectancy has increased on an average all across the world, which is a great thing. But when we learn to postpone death, should we also not learn to postpone birth? Does it make sense to you, I’m asking (Applause)?

Alan Kasujja: But ultimately though, you know, you talk about 7 billion people, you talk about the planet, but what about the individual, you know? We come back to that individual and... and... And my individual interests, how do I best harness them or condition them, so that they fit into society’s interests? Because the truth of the matter is, the way the world is organized, certainly the world that I live in, it’s a cutthroat competition. Everybody’s competing for the resources we have, everybody is trying to be a Mehta, everybody is trying to be a Sudhir. And as a result, you know, it becomes very difficult. So how do I as an individual then make sure that my contribution to society is one that benefits everybody? I know you’ve talked about the planet but how... how do I do that?

Sadhguru: See, whoever you are right now, whatever you are right now, you would like to be something more than what you’re right now. Yes or no?

Participants: Yes

Sadhguru: Hello? I’m talking to all of you?

Participants: Yes.

Sadhguru: If that something more happens, what? Something more. If that something more happens, what?

Participants: Something more.

Sadhguru: Something more. So in installments, you want to go somewhere. You want to expand. So because you’re going in installments, let me hasten you up a little bit and I will make you the king or queen of this planet. Don’t look at me hopefully (Laughter). Do I look like someone who will commit such a blunder (Laughter)? If I make you the king or the queen of this planet, will you be fulfilled, I’m asking you?

Participants: No.

Sadhguru: You will look at the stars. So there is something within a human being, which is longing to expand. Because right now, you’re so limited in your identity with your biology, with your physicality, because of this, you’re trying to expand physically. Physical expansion means – if it finds a very basic physical, biological expression, this is called sexuality. If you find an emotional expression, this will be called love. What all these things mean is, something that is not you, you’re trying to make it a part of yourself. If it’s a physical process, it’s called sexuality, if it’s an emotional process, it’s called love, if it’s a mental process, it gets labeled as greed, or ambition, or conquest or simply shopping (Few laugh/applaud) . These are all different ways to make something which is not a part of you, part of yourself in some way. But if it finds a conscious expression, it’s called yoga. Tch, that’s why we’re here, Sir.

Alan Kasujja: Yoga… And in that you say that the body is the ultimate form of technology.

Sadhguru: No, that’s next. But right now, your identity tha... your identity is so much with your physicality, you’re trying to expand physically. Because you’re trying to expand physically, you will see it doesn’t matter, if you get the solar system in your hands, you will not be fulfilled, if you get the galaxy, you’ll look for other galaxies, because what a human being is looking for is not more. When you pointed out these people and said, “I want to be like this”, you’re talking about how can I have more? What you’re looking for is not more, you want all. If you want all, physical is not the way, isn’t it? If you want to expand in a limitless way, physical is not the way because the nature of your physicality is defined by a boundary. We can call this a physical body only because it has a boundary. If you remove all these boundaries, it is no more a physical thing. Physicality is always defined by a boundary but there is something within you, longing to become boundless. This b... longing to become boundless is being misunderstood as longing to have more. More is not what it’s looking for, this life (Referring to oneself) is looking for a limitless expansion. If limitless expansion has to happen, one has to transcend their perception beyond their physical nature. If your perception rises beyond physical nature, then we use this horribly corrupted word, spiritual.

Alan Kasujja: And we shall come to spiritual elements a bit later. Right now though, let’s talk about politics. It’s an interesting subject (Laughter). Politics of a country, the politics of a country like Uganda... Is politics a good thing?

Sadhguru: See, when we say politics, what we are talking about – how to govern a nation. Or what we’re talking about is how to make the lives of larger mass of people who’re around us…

Alan Kasujja: That’s the ideal description.

Sadhguru: That is the fundamental. How it is conducted today is another matter. That is because of variety of things, because we chose democracy. Once you say this is a democratic nation, what this means is any one of you tomorrow could become the leader of this nation, that’s what it means.

Alan Kasujja: Really (Laughter)?

Sadhguru: Don’t... Don’t be so hopeless (Laughs) (Applause). Yes. In... In...

Alan Kasujja: I know someone, who used to think that (Sadhguru laughs).

Sadhguru: In Indian languages, democracy is described as jananayakam. What this means it, people are the leaders. That’s what it means. Well, right now, we have a Prime Minister in this... in our country proving this, that a tea-seller can become the Prime Minister of a nation (Applause). So, anybody could become. Only thing is, you have to learn to work the system.

Alan Kasujja: That you need to do, that you need to do.

Sadhguru: And the goddamn system is too convoluted in so many ways. Because we must understand, even if for hundred years we’re practicing democracy, it is new. In human mind, it is still new. We somewhere… Most people, I am telling you, most people in the world are still looking up to somebody like a king. Because democracy is a functional reality only when each individual is having a considered vote. But in most countries, it is a committed vote already. Based on religion, caste, creed, tribes, it’s a committed vote. Once it’s a committed vote, it is feudalism in the guise of democracy. It is not just in, you know, Asian countries or African countries. For example, if you go to America, people say, “My grandfather was a Republican, my father was a Republican, I am a Republican.” I’m saying it’s a committed vote, there is no consideration. Otherwise, how could (Laughter/Applause)…?

Alan Kasujja: How... How do you describe a good leader? Do you know… As a matter of fact, I’d like you to do that with an example, of a leader who you consider as a good one and describe the traits, the elements that make him a good leader.

Sadhguru: See, a leader in a democratic society means… because his powers are limited and his duration...

Alan Kasujja: Did you say his powers are limited?

Sadhguru: He’s... They’re limited. It is not like being a king or a dictator, where he can do what he wants. Even if he’s well-intentioned, his powers are limited because you have to convince… I don’t know how many Members of Parliaments and stuff you have here. In India, for example, you have to convince these five-hundred-and-forty-two people – oh my god (Laughter).

Alan Kasujja: Uganda it’s about four-hundred-and-eighty.

Sadhguru: Oh (Laughter)! You’re getting there (Laughter). So, by the time you convince these five-hundred people to think in one direction, five years are over (Laughter/Applause). So, democracy is a limited amount of power and you have to convince everybody. You ha... should be able to inspire the population to rise above their personal needs and work for the national need, which is not simple. It’s a very complex process. And in a democratic process, for a leader to come to that place, the very process of democracy is such, it’s an obligatory process. By the time he reaches there… he or she reaches there, they are so super obligated to various... you know, people who supported them, when they come there, they are supposed to take care of all these people. That’s what is called corruption by other people. They’re just paying back (Laughs).

Alan Kasujja: Is corruption a bad thing?

Sadhguru: Hmm?

Alan Kasujja: Is corruption a bad thing?

Sadhguru: Corruption essentially means, for me, that your self-interest has risen above the larger interest, for which you...

Alan Kasujja: That’s what most politicians do. Their self-interest rises above the interest of the whole.

Sadhguru: I think that would be a very unfair judgment on all politicians. It is... It’s not a good thing to say. I know a whole lot of them are like that, but not all, fortunately (Applause). Fortunately, not all.

Alan Kasujja: Okay, I’ll accept that but... So corruption… Some say it’s a system of rule, others say it’s an accelerator, others say it’s not a bad thing, it’s redistribution of wealth. What do you think it is (Sadhguru laughs)?

Sadhguru: There are other ways to redistribute wealth but what has happened is... Let me talk about corruption in India because I don’t know what variety you have here.

Alan Kasujja: I believe it’s the same out here (Laughter).

Sadhguru: What has happened in India is, we inherited a whole bunch of laws from the British. And they were all so ambiguously made, probably by intent. When I look at many of those things, these are intentionally ambiguous, so that if I want to pick you up, I can anyway pick you up for some reason or no reason. Because the law is so ambiguous, whichever way you walk on the street, you’re committing a crime (Laughter), okay? It’s designed in such a way, if I want to fix you, there is some law. Because you’re not doing anything, that’s a crime, you’re doing something, that’s a crime. Some where there is some law for every citizen is committing some crime...

Alan Kasujja: I told you it’s the same like Uganda. It’s the same here (Laughter).

Sadhguru: So the laws are so ambiguous (Laughs), particularly… I’m... I’ve been talking to the lawmakers about the business laws. The laws are so ambiguous, without corrupt people, business won’t happen. If you stop all the corruption tomorrow morning in India, half the business will stop or more will stop because these corrupt people are facilitating things unfortunately. Because the laws are ambiguous, nobody understands.

Alan Kasujja: So...

Sadhguru: I meet the topmost corporate lawyer in India and I was discussing something with him and I asked him, “Do you really understand this law?” He said, “Sadhguru, no.”

Alan Kasujja: You know, that is like Uganda.

Sadhguru: He said, “Don’t tell anybody but I don... I have no clue (Laughter). All I know is, my client comes, he tells me what he wants, I will argue for that powerfully in the court. That’s all.”

Alan Kasujja: I’ll tell you how it works in Uganda. You call them up at night and you talk to them individually and you address the individual needs. And one way of doing it could be to help them in a project that they’re working on or to pay off a loan to Crane Bank (Referring to the largest locally owned commercial bank in Uganda) (Laughter) or... Or you know, that... I’m sure that’s the same thing that happens in India, isn’t it? But the key question is, is it a bad thing?

Sadhguru: That’s what I’m saying. If you... If we want to remove corruption… Now they’re talking about bribe-givers and bribe-takers both should go to prison, so...

Alan Kasujja: Who’ll be left?

Sadhguru: I... I said ninety percent of the people will be in the prison (Laughter) because almost everybody has paid at some point. Who’s not paid? Everybody has paid. So, this corruption as a (an?) industry – I’m calling it an industry because it’s pretty well organized and well-oiled (Laughter) – this corruption as an industry has thrived because nations have not invested enough in taking away the ambiguity in law. Clearly, everybody knows where they stand. Now, if I’m doing my business and I know my law properly, you come and ask for money, I’m not going to pay you. Now you come, I don’t know what kind of laws you got. I’m doing my business, I’m doing my best (Laughs) but you come and if I don’t pay you, I don’t know whether you’re going to just fine me or handcuff me and take me, I don’t really know.

Alan Kasujja: We could talk about politics or corruption all day but I’m very keen to talk about health. We are, like you said earlier, at a place where technology is extremely advanced and we’re very concerned about trying to stick around a little longer. How do you maximize… How do you make sure that your lifestyle is healthy? It sounds like an innocuous question, which can be answered by a doctor, but from your point of view?

Sadhguru: No, lot of doctors are not healthy.

Alan Kasujja: Lots of doctors are not healthy (Sadhguru laughs).

Sadhguru: They’re not.

Alan Kasujja: Yeah. So in that context, with that in mind, health, good health, how do you achieve that?

Sadhguru: See, there’re many ways to look at this, one fundamental way… the most fundamental way in which yoga looks at health is like this. This body as a composition of things is made up like this – it is seventy-two percent water, twelve percent earth, six percent air, four percent fire, remaining is space, akash it’s called. Now, if you manage one element, that is water, seventy-two percent of your health and well-being is taken care of. There are two kinds of health issues, one is infectious, another is chronic. Infectious means it’s an invasion from an external organism, which... for which you need a doctor. If you get an infection, you need chemical warfare. But seventy percent of the ailments on the planet are self-help. That is, they grow their own pet project within themselves because they’ve never paid attention to how the body functions. What is the nature of my existence, no attention has been paid. They’re living by accident, so their being healthy or unhealthy also is by accident. When we say health, it is just that medically if you... if someone says you have no ailment, it does not mean you’re healthy. When you wake up in the morning, are you feeling alive and bouncy or not? It is a certain sense of wholeness. The word health comes from the word whole. You must have a certain sense of wholeness of body, mind, energy and the fundamental nature of your existence. If all these things are in alignment, now when you wake up in the morning, you feel like you’re just born. If this happens to you, that means you’re healthy. You may not be medically certified healthy… unhealthy but still you may not be healthy, because aaaa (Gestures)... This’s not health. Health means there is a certain sense of wholeness, all ingredients have fallen together properly and it’s alive. If this has to happen, one thing is there is a most fundamental process in the yogic system called as bhuta shuddhi, that is you start taking charge of the elements within the system. If you control the elements in the system, if you master the elements in the system, health is not even a (an?) issue. I can show you thousands of people, who walked out of their chronic ailments without any treatment. We don’t give them any treatment. Just align your system in a certain way, this (Referring to oneself) settles. Another way of looking at health is question of alignment. Every physical object in the universe, including your body, has a certain geometry to it. All physicality has a geometry to it. If the geometry arrives at a certain state of perfection, everything functions smoothly. If the geometry is little disaligned, everything becomes frictious. So what people are learning in the form of physical forms of yoga is not exercise, it is not (Laughs) stretching, it is not about having abs (Few laugh). It is about understanding the geometry of your existence. Today there is a theory in the scientific community, which is called as the constructional theory. What they’re trying to say is, the design… the fundamental design of the atom and the cosmos is essentially same. We’ve been saying this for thousands of years – anda pindanda, you know? Both are same. Because the way the ameba is made and the way you are made, essentially the design is same. Complexity and sophistication has multiplied many times over but fundamentally it is the same design. If it’s the same design, getting the geometry of your body right in alignment with the larger geometry is important. If you get this geometry, then suddenly you find everything is happening smoothly within you, everything is in alignment, there is no friction. The functioning of any machine, the efficiency of any machine is just a question of how friction-free it is. If there is friction, the machine is inefficient. If there is no friction, it is functioning well, it’ll last longer, it is a joy to have that machine. Otherwise, it’s a misery to have that machine.

Alan Kasujja: That’s a very interesting point and now coming to one of my final sessions… Does anybody have any questions at all? If you do, please put your hands up because I’d like to identify you. There are a few questions, there are a few hands going up at this point. But right now, I want to talk about love, I want to talk about marriage, I want to talk about family.

Sadhguru: You decide which one – love, or marriage or family (Laughter).

Alan Kasujja: Well, that’s interesting. That’s very interesting because that was again the context in which I was looking at it. Marriage and love, not importantly… not necessarily tied together?

Sadhguru: See, love... love is something that happens within you. Marriage is something that you do in the society, with somebody. They’re two different things, I’m saying. There may be love in your marriage but there cannot be marriage in your love (Laughter/Applause).

Alan Kasujja: That’s actually true.

Sadhguru: When we say love, we are always thinking love means with somebody. I love this person, I love that person, I love that person – no. I want you to look at this carefully. Love is something that happens within you. When your emotion comes to a certain sweetness, then you say, “I’m in love.” That... With whom are you in love? You are just using the other person as a key to open up a certain dimension within you.

Alan Kasujja: I always thought that actually (Laughter).

Sadhguru: But what I’m telling you right now is, why are you using a key when there is no lock (Laughter)? So, the choice is just this, all the things which are most significant for you in your life – you being peaceful, joyful, loving, blissful, these are important for you?

Participants: Yes.

Sadhguru: These things, would you want them to be on push-start or self-start? You know, in fifties, if you had... if you bought a car, along with that you need two people – morning push-start (Laughter). Early sixties, crank start, one person would do. Now everything is on self-start. So, things that truly matter to you in your life – your joy, your peacefulness, your love, your blissfulness, everything about you… that is beautiful about you, would you want to put it on self-start or push-start? Self-start. So if you are loving, this is not about anybody. If somebody is here, you can express, nobody is here, you can sit here lovingly (Laughter).

Alan Kasujja: I want you to watch what I’m about to do right now, Sadhguru (Sadhguru laughs). How many Indian Ugandans are in here today? Indian Ugandans, put up your hands please.

Sadhguru: That’s all?

Alan Kasujja: Indian Ugandans? Okay, how many black Ugandans are here, African Ugandans?

Sadhguru: Hey, I knew you ____ (Unclear) (Laughs).

Alan Kasujja: Yeah, yeah. Okay, how many. Can we just see the Indian Ugandans again? I think that they are more than those hands that I saw up... go up. Right. So how many of the Indian Ugandans have been in a relationship with an African Ugandan (Laughter/Applause)?

Sadhguru: Hey, this is not a confession (Laughter/Applause).

Alan Kasujja: Can I see a show of hands? There is one here.

Sadhguru: No, no, the thing... the thing about Indians is, they will never confess such things in public (Laughter/Applause).

Alan Kasujja: Okay. In that se.. In that case, then let me rephrase my question (Laughter). How many Indian Uganda ns here know an Indian Ugandan that has been in some sort (Laughter) of relationship with an African Ugandan? Okay, so there’re more hands going up now. How many black Ugandans or African Ugandans have been in a relationship with an Indian Ugandan?

Sadhguru: They’re such a small percentage, 0.01 percent. Where do you find an Indian and fall in love?

Alan Kasujja: You see, my point is Sadhguru, and I need to report to you this you know, I need to report this to you. Indians just don’t let us near their daughters (Laughter/Applause).

Sadhguru: That is not just for Ugandans, they won’t let even Indians get close to their daughters (Laughter/Applause).

Alan Kasujja: And in many ways, I think this is part of the problem, the fact that we live in a... in a country that is multicultural in many ways, i t’s cosmopolitan, but that element of social integration doesn’t take place.

Sadhguru: Social integration need not mean sexual integration.

Alan Kasujja: Whoa (Laughter/Applause)!

Sadhguru: Now, first of all, let me define that word relationship. Why is relationship always of the body? So, probably for most Indians and I’m true... I’m sure it’s true for many Ugandans.

Alan Kasujja: You’re giving them an excuse, Sadhguru (Sadhguru laughs).

Sadhguru: You can tell me who you’re aiming at, then I could (Laughter/Applause)…

Alan Kasujja: Okay.

Sadhguru: We... Let’s redefine the word relationship. Unfortunately, everybody has picked on the word relationship as it is said in the American B-grade movies, okay? A relationship is of many kinds. We hold various kinds of relationship with people and maybe one relationship is of the body, rest may have nothing to do with the body. But we have many intimate and close relationships with people, where our bodies are not involved.

Alan Kasujja: So we can be friends but I can’t marry your daughter?

Sadhguru: You can maybe marry if you pass the test (Laughter), but you want to just take her for two days, that’s not allowed (Laughs).

Alan Kasujja: But my... my... my bigger point is, and... and I beg to belabor this because I think it’s very important. I think... I wonder – and please correct me if I’m wrong – if for example, the Indian community in Uganda has done enough to integrate into the greater part... into Uganda and if... because don’t you think surely, where I come from, when you get married, you... you’re bringing one another family, you become a little more cohesive, you become friendlier, you become warmer, you create a better understanding . Isn’t this something… The cultural hybridity t hat results, isn’t this something that the country would benefit from?

Sadhguru: Yes, but the Indian problem is, if they marry a (an?) Ugandan girl, can she make dhokla (Laughter/Applause) tomorrow?

Alan Kasujja: She can learn (Sadhguru laughs).

Sadhguru: It’s not that simple (Laughter). It’s too complicated. No, it is not about... I mean, if you’re looking at it as are we in some state of discrimination, I don’t think so. I’m telling you, even in India, even if they’re in India, they’re… whole lot of them are Guajaratis, they won’t marry Tamil person within the country. They won’t marry a Bengali person. They won’t marry an Andhra person. Somewhere, if somebody falls in love, it may happen. But generally, they would like to marry in their own community, in their own thing because this is the way they have known life for thousands of years, about preserving talent and culture within that. So why this was so is (Applause)… No… See, we’re... we’re talking about times when there were no universities to impart skills and knowledge. So right now, if there is a blacksmith, he wants to marry only a blacksmith’s daughter, not a goldsmith’s daughter because she will be little dainty and fanciful, she won’t last in the blacksmith’s house. She won’t last. So if this marriage has to be enduring, because they’re looking at children, till the children grow up, the husband and wife should be together... I mean, they’re thinking of a lifetime, they’re not thinking of a few years. So, they are very conscious about putting it through all kinds of screens because they are thinking of marriage as a lifelong partnership, not as a brief encounter.

Alan Kasujja: That doesn’t make it a good thing.

Sadhguru: I’m not saying it’s good or bad, I’m just saying why they may not be opening up their doors of marriage. They don’t open their door... Gujaratis will not open their doors of marriage to Tamil, Tamil people no way will marry a Gujarati (Laughter). Yes, they will not. Na... Maybe individual people, out of interaction, young people meet each other, it may happen, but families will not do it. Now things are changing a little bit because it’s becoming difficult to find your own kind, so people are doing something. But it’ll still l... take a long time because of many aspects to this. It’s very difficult to explain because... See, if I go… if I go in United States to somebody’s house, I just smell the seasoning in the house and I say, “You’re this community, isn’t it?” They say, “Sadhguru, how do you know?” I said, “The seasoning” (Laughs) because in a particular community, it smells in a particular way. Another community, which just lives in the neighborhood, they make seasoning in a different way. And these people can’t stand that and they cannot stand this. Their tongues have been, you know, cultured to like only this. Am I saying is this good, is this bad? This is not the way. It is great that there are so many varieties of people and they’ve distinctly maintained this for some time. Today a time has come in the world, where people have to integrate, but it need not be made compulsory. Let it happen at its own time (Applause).

Alan Kasujja: I just... I’ve stopped chasing her now (Laughter). I’m going to ask you one of my last questions and I’ll open up to the floor. And if you have questions, please put it up... put up your hands and we’ll come to you. Y ou know what my favorite quote of yours is?

Sadhguru: I didn’t know you were... you... I was your favorite (Laughs). Now, I’m getting little...

Alan Kasujja: Yeah, you said it this morning actually.

Sadhguru: Because you said you stopped chasing her....

Alan Kasujja: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...

Sadhguru: And now you’re saying I’m your favorite (Laughter).

Alan Kasujja: By the way, you’re introducing a very interesting subject, I shall ask you...

Sadhguru: No, no, no, no, no (Laughter)…

Alan Kasujja: I shall not go there, I shall not go there. But you said this morning that bullshit can get you there but it won’t keep you there.

Sadhguru: Yeah.

Alan Kasujja: In the context of destiny, in the context of trying to get to where we’re going, how do we make sure that we’re doing the right thing and then when we get there, we’re going to stay there? And I must explain that statement was made in a…following a story and there was a story behind it, it wasn’t just an independent statement.

Sadhguru: See, when we say destiny, when we say life, life is in the way you experience it, not in the content of life. It is in the context of life, the way it happens within you. You may... you may be sitting under a tree and blissed out, you may be sitting in a palace and be depressed – possible or no?

Participants: Yes.

Sadhguru: So the quality of life and the destiny of your life is the way it happens within you. So what the world throws at you is not always your choice. It is a consequence of times in which we exist. But whatever it throws at you, what you make out of it is essentially you. This is your destiny, that it does not matter what the world throws at you, you know how to make it a good thing for yourself and everybody around you. This is taking charge of your destiny. Destiny need not necessarily mean all the physical situations that I dreamed of happened. But my experience of life happens the way I want it – this... this means I am in charge of my destiny. Well, here a whole lot of people have been sharing their stories with me that in this country, they prospered at one time and they had to leave the country for eight-ten years and then they came back. That’s what I was telling them. If somebody was asked to leave, many people would hang from the trees, not being able to take it. But people went wherever they went and they came back and recreated what they had, a whole lot of them. Maybe s... many of them lost it. But what I’m saying is, what they created physically is not the thing. I must tell you a story. You okay for a… for a mythological story? Recently, I was talking to a... a large group of schoolchildren in a small town in Andhra Pradesh, which was a strange thing for me, I was wondering whether they will understand English, but they were all highly perked up (Laughs). There were over 5000 children and I was speaking to them. Then one little girl stands up, a fourteen-year-old girl. Well, I’m sorry, I shouldn’t call her a little girl because she doesn’t think she’s little. She stands up and asks, “Sadhguru…” You know, Ram in Ayodhya, his wife gets kidnapped from Sri Lanka… Where is he (Laughs)?

Alan Kasujja: Why are you pointing at Mr. ____ (Unclear)?

Sadhguru: He is Sri Lankan, he kidnapped (Laughter/Applause)… So this king’s wife was kidnapped and then he walked all the way to Sri Lanka, fought a battle, set fire to that entire city, got his wife back, went back home, it’s a big story. So this little girl asks, “Sadhguru, is it practical for a man to walk from Northern India to Sri Lanka? Is this just a story or is this real?” Then I look at her and say, “See, you are still a little girl. One day, you will get a man of your own. When you get this man, would... Suppose you got lost somewhere, would you want a man, who’ll walk all the way or who will think, “This is not practical” and find solution in the neighborhood” (Laughter)? Well, she knows she wants a man, who’ll walk all the way. That she knows. Now if you... You know, many of them are Ram worshippers, they worship Ram. If you look at Ram’s life, it’s a continuous disaster (Laughter). Yes. He is the king. Because of some political reasons, he goes off into the jungle with his newly married wife. She is a princess, not trained to live in the jungle. Seeing their plight, their brother… his brother leaves his wife and children and travels with him to support him in the jungle. It’s a disaster. I know you might have seen some movie, where Sita doing (Gestures) that in the forest. No. You do one thing, just by yourself you go and live in the forest for three months, you will see what’ll happen to you. It’s another game altogether. So then she is there and this guy comes and kidnaps her and takes her to Sri Lanka (Laughter). And then he goes, fights a battle, brings her back. Again some political situation, she is pregnant and at that time she... he again takes her and leaves her in the jungle all by herself. And no sonogram (Laughter), so he doesn’t know whether it’s a boy, or a girl, or boys or girls. She delivers twins, two boys. He doesn’t know. Children grow up in the jungle. Then unknowingly, he fights a battle with his own children. He could have easily killed his own children. It was very close. Suppose unknowingly, you killed your own children, do you need a bigger disaster in your life, I’m asking? It’s the worst kind of disaster, isn’t it? It almost happened. Fortunately, he could not kill them. But then she died in the jungle, she... He never, ever got to see her again. This is not a success story but they worship him. Not because he is a big success on the outside. No matter what happened, he did not lose his balance. He did not become resentful, he did not become hateful, he did not become angry, he did not lose his composure. No matter what life threw at him, he maintained who he is. So this is what we call as destiny. His destiny is totally in his hands. Life can do whatever but he will do only what he has to do. This is taking charge of your destiny (Applause).

Alan Kasujja: Thank you very much and right now I’d like to open up for...

Sadhguru: As a culture, they all learnt to bow down to that quality, not just success in the world. He is a big success as a human being within himself. For that, we’re bowing down (Applause).

Alan Kasujja: I’m opening up the floor now for questions. I’m going to start with the gentleman over there. Could you just put your hands up if you’d like to ask questions? Quite a few hands going up. Let’s start with you, Sir. If can stand up and introduce yourself. Questioner (Andrew): My name is old man with a clan. I am told that you are a guru of yoga. I would like to know from you, what animal is yoga.

Sadhguru: What? Questioner (Andrew): What animal?

Sadhguru: Ani... Questioner (Andrew): Animal.

Alan Kasujja: What is yoga?

Sadhguru: Okay. Questioner (Andrew): And how can it be useful? Why should an old man like me care about it? And...

Sadhguru: No, I didn’t get that part of the... What animal is...

Alan Kasujja: What is yoga basically... Questioner (Andrew): Basically, I’m asking what is yoga?

Sadhguru: Oh, tch… Okay, all right. Questioner (Andrew): And why should I care about it, what is its value? I am seriously ignorant about it. The second question is, what is the purpose of life, how do I know that purpose, how do I pursue it, how to I find it and how do I live it? Thank you (Applause).

Sadhguru: It seems to be a popular question, eh (Laughter)?

Alan Kasujja: Oh, his name is Andrew ____ (Unclear), not an old man though.

Sadhguru: Hmm?

Alan Kasujja: His name is Andrew ____ (Unclear)

Sadhguru: His?

Alan Kasujja: Andrew.

Sadhguru: Andrew?

Alan Kasujja: Yes.

Sadhguru: Okay. Andrew, when... When you ask what is yoga... I’m sorry, initially I missed that animal part (Laughs), I get it. What is this yoga? First let me tell you, this is the only practice on the planet, which has lived for over 15,000 years, without any papacy, without any authority enforcing it on anybody. Never in the history of this yogic culture has it so happened, somebody put a sword to your throat and said, “You do yoga, otherwise you’re dead.” No such thing ever happened. Out of sheer efficacy, because it works, it’s lived. Today over two-billion people are doing some form of yoga. What is it? Many ways to look at it. I would like to explore two different ways, so that it brings some clarity to you. One thing is, you agree with me that this human mechanism, which you call as myself right now, do you agree with me that this is the most sophisticated technology on the planet? Do you?

Participants: Yes.

Sadhguru: I’m just asking you, such a complex technology you have with you, have you read the user’s manual (Laughter)? So one dimension of yoga is to explore the user’s manual, which is written into this system (Referring to oneself), so that you know how to explore the full depth and dimension of what this life is about. If you explore the full depth and dimension of what this life (Referring to oneself) is about, this second question, “What is the purpose?” would be very easily answered. Or in other words, to make... simplify your question, what you’re asking is, “What is the nature of my existence?” Because you are certain that you exist, but you do not know the nature of your existence. If you think one way, you become one way. If you think another way, you become another way. If you feel one way, you become one way. You feel another way, tomorrow you fee… become another way because what is human is not defined. If you had come as any other creature… We know what is a (an?) earthworm, we know what is a grass... grasshopper, we know what is a tiger, we know what is a lion, but we don’t know what is a human being, isn’t it? Being human beings, you don’t know what is a human being because nature has left a certain freedom for you. With every other creature, nature has drawn two lines within which they have to live and die. For the human being, there is only a bottom line, there is no top line. This means there is a limitless possibility of exploration. When we talk limitlessness, definitely we must leave the physical behind, isn’t it? Because physicality is the dimension of the limited, physicality is always of boundaries. When we utter the word limitless, we must understand, we want to transcend physical nature. What is the purpose? Suppose right now – all of you, I’m asking you – if you’re feeling really ecstatic, would you ask what is the purpose of life? No. It’s becoming little burdensome, it’s a little drag, when you get up in the morning, “What the hell am I doing here?” kind of feeling, now it comes up – what is the purpose? Your idea of a purpose is you want a meaning. I want you to understand, meanings are a psychological problem. You want to find a meaning. There is no meaning anywhere in the existence but meanings are important for your intellect. If you keep your intellect aside, there is no meaning to anything. The existence is simply on. What is the meaning of it? There is no meaning. This is just an intellectual pursuit. Right now, because of the nature of your education, the only dimension of intelligence that you’re exploring is intellect. Intellect is like a scalpel. What are you give... Whatever you give to your intellect, it will dissect. Right now, the very question that you’re asking is to dissect. What is the meaning of life? What is the purpose of life means we must dissect this life and see why this life, why am I here, what should I do, where should I go? This is simply because right now life is not being experienced. Most human beings have become a bundle of thoughts, emotions, ideas, opinions and prejudices. These are all your making. This is not life. This is your making. Your psychological drama has overtaken the existential drama. The creation, such a magnificent creation, but right now your psychological drama has overtaken the creation itself. Today, sun came up on time. Hello?

Participants: Yes.

Sadhguru: So what? Tch, no (Laughs), I must tell you this. Some time ago, a year or little more than that, I was to... I was flying a helicopter in United States and it was a good day weather-wise, so we took off the doors and we’re pa… flying a (an?) open helicopter. Well, every aviator knows, for every 1000 feet that you go up, how much temperature and stuff. But we just went up there, suddenly a cloud cover, we hit a cold front, the temperature dropped dramatically, where you know, even to hold the controls it became difficult, so we decided to come down. As we were coming down, we were just discussing, “Suppose tomorrow sun doesn’t come up, what happens?” Oh, we thought maybe in three months, this will happen, six months, that will happen. We came down and did a bit of research and we found, if sun does not come up tomorrow morning, in eighteen hours’ time, almost everything that you know as life will be gone. Except certain microbes deep in the earth, almost everything will be frozen and gone. So sun came up today morning, I want to hear appropriate noises, eh (Applause). Yeah, it’s not a small thing. But… Sun came up on time, planet is spinning on time, the entire galaxy is going on without any accidents, everything in this cosmos today is going great. But you have one little… nasty little thought crawling in your head and it’s a bad day (Applause). So, when your intellect overtakes your experiential dimension, then you will start thinking what is the purpose of life because life is a purpose onto itself, if you experience this life in its fullness. Right now, your psychological drama is hijacking your life. Most of the time, you’re thinking about life, not living life. I want you to go back to the greatest experience in your life, whatever was the most exhilarating experience in your life, suppose right now you were in that moment, would you ask me what is the purpose of life? The moment you ask this question, immediately people will come up with this God-given purposes that everybody has. The moment some... Whenever.... I have seen... Whenever someone says, “God told me this”, you can be very sure the... a disaster is unfolding (Laughter). Yes. Whenever people spoke these words, disasters were unfolding around them. So, I want you to just look at this. First of all, this... this convoluted idea has been taught to human beings that existence is human-centric. No, this solar system is a speck in this cosmos. Tomorrow morning, if this speck vanishes, nobody will miss it, believe me. In this tiny speck of a solar system, Planet Earth is a micro speck. In that micro speck, Kampala is a super micro speck. In that, you are a big man (Laughter/Applause). Now, this is... this is not a simple problem.

Alan Kasujja: Right. And thank you very much for that. Any more questions? Any more questions? Let me take the question from the lady here. Can I just get a...

Sadhguru: We need to tell him the aba... about the animal, the zoo of yoga.

Alan Kasujja: Yes, the zoo of yoga.

Sadhguru: Yeah. Another dimension of yoga is this. As you sit here, this is me, that’s you. Distinctly clear, isn’t it? Hmm? No confusion between you and the person sitting next to you. One hundred percent it’s clear, this is me, this is somebody else. But you’re inhaling and exhaling. What you exhale, somebody may be inhaling, what they exhale, you’re inhaling. At least what you exhale, the trees are inhaling, what the trees exhale, you’re inhaling. If you stop this transaction because you thought you’re too much of a solid state, this is the end of you. This is not just in respiration, this is happening even in your subatomi... subatomic particle level, that there is a transaction going on with the entire existence. I want you to just look at the reality we are in. We are sitting on a planet, round in shape, that too on the equator, we’re sitting like this (Gestures) (Laughter), you know. Suppose you got your school… your high school globe to your house and sit on it, you will be sitting like this (Gestures). It’s an odd way to sit, you know, on the equator. At least you must migrate to North Pole, where you could sit firmly. You’re sitting like this and the damn planet is spinning, and in the middle of nowhere,
you don’t know where it begins, where it ends, here we’re sitting here and thinking what is the purpose of life (Laughter)? Now, who you are right now... It’s like this. Let me give you an analogy. As schoolchildren, w hen you were children, you might have blown soap bubbles. Did you? Andrew? Andrew, Andrew? Soap bubble? Did you blow soap bubbles?

Alan Kasujja: Andrew.

Sadhguru: That’s okay. That’s okay. So, when you blew a bubble, this was your bubble, this was somebody’s bubble, distinctly there. But when it burst, what was the major content of this bubble, the air within, where is my air and where is your air? There is no such thing. Even now, there is no such thing. You are just imagining that this is me, that is you. Till you bury… Till you’re buried, it looks like you won’t understand. If you understand right now, your life will transform. If you get it at that time, tch, it’s a bit too late (Few applaud).

Alan Kasujja: Okay...

Sadhguru: Yoga means to obliterate the boundaries of your individuality. As you sit here, if you can obliterate the boundaries of your individuality and begin to experience everything as myself, or myself as everything... Suppose you sat here in this hall and experienced all the people in this hall as you experience the ten fingers on your hand... Because I want you to understand, whatever the content of your body was not you some time ago, it’s just the food that you’ve eaten. It is the soil which has become food, it is the food which has become flesh. It was not you yesterday, today it is you. So what is not you, you’re able to make it yourself, simply because you include it into the boundaries of your sensations. So yoga means to be able to expand these boundaries in such a way that if you sit here, you en... experience the entire universe as yourself. If you sit here and experience the entire universe as myself, then we say you are in yoga, not doing yoga. Then you are a yogi. So this is the purpose of yoga, because not that this is something that we’ve invented, this is the way life is happening. Life is not happening as individual. This is one big cosmic life. You can blow your own soap bubble and have a sense of individuality. The magnanimity of creation is such, though you are a puny little nothing, it gives you a great sense of individuality for a period of time. So enjoy that but don’t get lost in it because that is not your nature. Right now, you’ve blown a bubble, enjoy the bubble. But you must know, this air is constantly in movement. If it is not mo... in movement, it’ll suffocate. So yoga means to consciously obliterate this. As I was telling you, whether it’s sexuality, or love or ambition, or conquest or yoga, essentially the goal is same. In some way, you want to make this (Referring to oneself) bigger than what it is. But if it becomes bigger, it wants to become bigger.

So yoga means you learn to obliterate the individual boundaries, so that you can experience the entire universe as myself. This is not a philosophy, this is not an ideology, this is the way existence is happening. If you experience life the way it is, then you can handle life most efficiently. If you do not experience it the way it is but you have your own psychological drama, which tells you something else, then with the simplest things people are confused. People don’t know how to handle their thought and emotion even today, after fifty-sixty years of life, simply because they have not seen life the way it is. They are imagining things, which are not there in their psychological space. So yoga means to know reality, to perceive reality just the way it is. If you perceive everything just the way it is, your ability to conduct life is greatly, greatly enhanced, to a point where other people think it is superhuman. So essentially, it is about realizing the immensity of what it means to be human (Applause).

Alan Kasujja: We still have a few minutes left. There are very many hands going up at the moment. About... Yeah, so let’s keep going. Can I see the hands that are up again, please? Lots of hands. Mukesh, you’d like to ask a question? Questioner (Mukesh): Pranam Guruji, this question which I’m going to ask is not... I’ve... I’ve heard the answer before but I would like this question to be answered by Sadhguru for the benefit of lot of Ugandan friends and colleagues and associates whom we’ve invited here. Because during the time of passing invitations, many of them point blank declined – so this is… yoga is to do with Hinduism. So Sadhguru, if you can please explain, is yoga specific to a belief system or a particular religion? Thank you (Sadhguru laughs).

Alan Kasujja: A friend of mine actually told me when I invited him over that, “I’m a follower of Christ, so I can’t come.” So that’s an important question that Mukesh is asking.

Sadhguru: So, for the followers of Christ, let me say something (Laughs). He said many things or today people say he said many things. But some things we... we’re sure he said it, rest of it we don’t know. On the way, there are entrepreneurs, you know? But the important thing about his life is, he talked about taking people to another dimension of life which he referred to as kingdom of god. Everybody thought it’s up there.

Alan Kasujja: Isn’t it?

Sadhguru: People gathered – let me say – people gathered. When enough people gathered, he turned around and said, “The kingdom of god is within you.” Whoever says that, he is a yogi (Applause).

Alan Kasujja: Jesus Christ was a yogi?

Sadhguru: I am not saying anything. I am saying whoever says the ultimate nature of the existence is within you, he’s a yogi. That’s what yoga means. So, what he said, what he did not say, I’ve not made a study of it, I do not know, but people have been telling me this is what he said. If he said this, he must be a yogi because unless you’re in that experience of inclusiveness, you wouldn’t say that. He definitely did not read a yoga text, he must have experienced. Hmm?

Alan Kasujja: I was going to say that. Yeah, maybe he didn’t read it.

Sadhguru: He didn’t... He def.. He did not read that. It is from an inner experience that he’s saying it’s within you. If he says it’s within you, this means he is a yogi. So what kind of a yogi he is? Well, he’s Middle Eastern, so he’s of a certain kind, he speaks the language of the time and the area. Whoever came anytime... In India, thousands of yogis came. The reason why thousands came is, this land developed a certain discipline, that if somebody talks about dimensions beyond our experience, we should never persecute them. This discipline they brought into their culture. Because of this, every generation produced thousands of enlightened beings. Everybody is saying their own thing in their own way, but ultimately talking about the same reality. But in this part of the world or wherever he came, he stood out because generally persecution was the way. Apart from organized religion, if everything was... anything else was said, he would be dead. That’s the normal thing. Well, it happened to him also, anyway. It happened to him also, a horrible way of ending his life. Even today I see, when I go to certain countries, I am not abusing anybody, I’m just asking a few questions. If I ask a few questions, in some countries, they stand up and tell me (Laughs), “You will leave this country headfirst” (Laughter) – that means horizontal, that’s what they mean (Laughter). I tell them, “Everywhere I go, I always go head first. You also should learn this, head first” (Laughs). Now, about this yoga being Hindu, it’s like this. This is a profound understanding of human mechanism. If you say yoga is Hindu, gravity must be Jewish (Laughter). The word Hindu means this. There is a Himalayan range in the northern part of India. In the south there is an Indian Ocean. This is called Himalaya, this was called Indu Sagara. Hindu means the land that lies between the Himalayan ranges and this Indian Ocean was called Hindu. This culture prospered and flourished for over 5-6000 years, undisturbed by invasions, undisturbed by other wild tribes which are outside. So people slowly developed reverence to these two geographical features because they knew their well-being was mainly because of these Himalayan ranges and the ocean, which protected them. So they called the land Hindu to start with. Later on, they called themselves Hindu. So anything that’s born in this land, because it’s a geographical identity, an earthworm born in that land is a Hindu earthworm (Laughter). This is not a religious identity, this is a geographical identity. Like right now a lion born in Africa is called and African lion. So why is an earthworm born in India not a Hindu earthworm (Alan Kasujja laughs)? But somewhere along the way, when external forces came, they had a religion of their own, they had a god of their own, they had a book of their own. We didn’t have any because we were not believers at any time in history. Even today, India is not a land of believers, it is a land of seekers. The highest value is not god in India even today, if you do not know (Applause). The highest value is mukti, which means liberation or freedom. Freedom is the highest value. God has never been the highest value. We know the technologies of god-making (Laughter). We made thirty-three-million gods and goddesses (Laughter/Applause) because we understood how to create a form and energize it and make it work in a particular way for us. But never ever that culture propagated a god up there, a book which tells you what to do. Everything is a debate. Even when people who were recognized godly, when they came, there were no commandments, there were only debates, endless debates. Even today, Indians are still debating (Laughter).

Alan Kasujja: In the same vein therefore...

Sadhguru: Hmm?

Alan Kasujja: there such a thing as an afterlife or is this it?

Sadhguru: You want to know what happens after death?

Alan Kasujja: Yeah.

Sadhguru: Some things you know best by experience (Laughter/Applause).

Alan Kasujja: So you want me to die faster, then find out what happens (Laughter)?

Sadhguru: No, no, no (Laughs). The thing is, everybody wants to know what happens after death, but actually what they’re asking is, “What is the nature of my existence? I’m here right now, but I know one day... People who were here before me, they died and pup they vanished, what happened? So what’ll happen to me?” What you’re saying is, “What is the nature of my existence? Will my existence end with this body or will something else happen? Will I go to some place? Will the accommodations be good there (Laughter)? How is the climate?” (Laughs) – all these things. See, if you want to know the nature of your existence, this is the best time to know, isn’t it? You’re here, alive, with an active intelligence. This is the best time to explore. Another dimension of yoga is this – not by... not by dogma, not by theory, not by belief, but by systems of exploration. Is this... Is this true that your body that you have right now, you gathered it over a period of time? Hello?

Participants: Yes.

Sadhguru: Whatever you gather, you can claim it is mine. But if you say it’s me, you kind of lost it, isn’t it? Hello? You understand what I’m saying?

Participants: Yes.

Sadhguru: See, right now, I say, “This glass is my glass.” Then you will think, “Oh, Sadhguru has some problem but let’s listen some more. Everybody says he’s wise.” After some time, I take this and I say, “This is me.” Then you will say, “Let’s go” (Laughter) because this amounts to madness. But right now, there is water here, if I drink it, it does become a part of me, isn’t it?

Participants: Yes.

Sadhguru: This is how you gathered whatever number of kilograms you have right now with you (Laughter). Yes or no? This entire body was gathered from outside. The content of the mind and the content of the body, you gathered from outside. This is a heap of food, this is a heap of impressions. What you gather can be yours, can never ever be you. So there must be something beyond this body, beyond this mind. Don’t assume. Why don’t you explore? How can you live here without knowing the nature of your existence? You want to know what happens after death? Don’t you want to know right now what is the nature of your existence? You must know. If you don’t know, you will be eternally confused human being.

Alan Kasujja: Thank you. Any more questions, please? Yes, let’s have the lady here ask a question. Anybody at the back? Okay. And then I’ll come... Let’s move to the back of the room next please.

Questioner: Pranam, Sadhguruji, I’ve just got a question here.

Alan Kasujja: Okay, can we have the lady here first, please? Yes?

Questioner (Renu): Pranam Guruji, good evening.

Questioner (Rochelle Bhatinda): Thank you so much. Namaste Sadhguru.

Alan Kasujja: Right, I think there are very many microphones going around at the moment.

Sadhguru: Okay. The lady here and then we’ll come to you.

Questioner (Rochelle Bhatinda): Okay.

Alan Kasujja: Yes. Please ask your question.

Questioner (Renu): Okay. Pranam Guruji, good evening Alan. My first question is to Alan.

Alan Kasujja: What’s your name?

Questioner (Renu): I’m Renu and I’m new to Uganda. My question to you Alan is, would you very briefly tell me what is ubuntu?

Alan Kasujja: Right. I wish I could tell you briefly but ____ (Unclear) to tell me briefly about it. Ubuntu of course is the fact that we are all human beings and we’re all gathered to… we are all one basically.

Sadhguru: Oh, you’re talking about yoga (Laughter)! What do you call that? Undu? Hmm?

Alan Kasujja: Ubuntu, ubuntu.

Sadhguru: That’s yoga.

Alan Kasujja: Yes (Laughter).

Sadhguru: But... But the difference may be, in yoga we have systems and methods through which we can experience, we can bring you to an experience of undu (ubuntu?), the methodology (Laughs). But right now, you may have a philosophy of oneness but you don’t have a method. The thing is to teach a scientific process through which you can come to that state of what you call as...

Alan Kasujja: Ubuntu.

Questioner (Renu): Guruji, how ubuntu has been explained to me is – essentially, I am who I am because of who we all are, so I am a reflection of Alan and Alan is a reflection of me. I don’t know if that is true or not.

Sadhguru: No, no, no.

Alan Kasujja: I would love to look that way.

Sadhguru: No, no, no, I wouldn’t take that seriously.

Alan Kasujja: I agree (Both laugh).

Questioner (Renu): So Guruji, can we take it to Vasudev Kutumbakam somehow?

Sadhguru: No, no, no, no, no (Laughs).

Questioner (Renu): Between ubuntu and Vasudev Kutumbakam, do you think there is any commonality?

Sadhguru: See, do... do not try to reduce everything into a slogan. This is a dangerous process.

Questioner (Renu): Yes, but the interconnectedness of humans.

Alan Kasujja: Thank you very much. Before you answer that question, can I have the lady that stood up and then the gentleman, please? I’d like to have as many female voices in ____ (Unclear) and then... and then... Yeah, what’s your name and what’s your question?

Questioner (Rochelle Bhatinda): Okay, so namaste Sadhguru, my name is Rochelle Bhatinda and I’m a storyteller. You talked about the body’s ability to heal itself and I had this question in mind. It’s about the kundalini. Now, can you ignite the kundalini to heal the healthy body of diseases? And would you encourage somebody with really complicated illnesses like heart disease to ignite their kundalini to heal themselves? Thank you.

Alan Kasujja: Are you Ugandan (Laughter)?

Questioner (Rochelle Bhatinda): Yes, I’m Ugandan. I’m of Ngo clan.

Alan Kasujja: She’s a Muganda, she’s from my tribe (Laughter), but what she just talked about, I have no idea about (Laughter/Applause) . What did she just say, by the way (Laughter)?

Sadhguru: This is... The thing is, the Indian languages have an elaborate vocabulary to describe different dimensions that function within you. The English language has phenomenal vocabulary to describe the outside but when it comes to the inside, it’s very poor. But the Indian languages, particularly Sanskrit, she’s picked up one word from that. It has an...

Alan Kasujja: So it actually exists?

Sadhguru: Hmm?

Alan Kasujja: The word exists?

Sadhguru: Yes, yes (Laughs). So, kundalini means a certain... Right now, I’m speaking, this is kundalini, the energy behind this is kundalini. You are listening, that is also kundalini. A dog is barking, that is also kundalini. A flower is blossoming, that is also kundalini. Or in other words, that energy which makes everything happen in the physical creation is called kundalini. So what they’re right now referring to is, there is an entire system called kundalini yoga to maximize this energy. Because generally, in most human beings, to eat, sleep, reproduce and die, a miniscule of this energy is active means it’s good enough. If you raise this energy, then what is happening is, in the composition of elements, you’re chi... you’re trying to change the fundamental composition of how you’re made. That is, you’re trying to increase what is called as akash. This means your perception will enhance because only what you perceive, you know, rest is just imagination. Right now, our modern education systems have surrendered to information. After some time you will see, information means nothing because you seem to know everything but you don’t know anything. Right now, we know so much about health. But they tell me, the world’s food industry is 7.6 trillion dollars, the world’s pharmaceutical industry is seven point true... two trillion dollars. They’re saying by the end of ninety… I mean, 2017, the pharmaceutical industry will overtake the food industry. That means we’ll be eating more medicine than food on this planet. And we’re healthy (Laughs)! We... We know so much about health but we don't know how to be healthy. Like this, because information only gives you a sense of knowing something but you cannot really make it happen in life that way. It is... It is okay with material things. But when it comes to life, information doesn’t take you anywhere. Probably your grandma... your grandmother lived with much more life sense than with all the intellect and education that most people have today, simply because there was life sense, everything was by experience. So kundalini, when we talk about it, we are trying to raise the energy. Now can it k... heal ailments and this? We must understand this much, this entire body was created from within, right? Whatever you... I hear you eat a lot of bananas, but by eating all those bananas, you didn’t go bananas, you became human, all right (Laughter)? So, whatever you eat, there is something inside, which is capable of manufacturing this body. When the very source of manufacturing this body is within you, if there is a repair job to be done, is it best to go to the manufacturer or to the local tinker (Laughter)? If you have access with the manufacturer, you would go to the manufacturer. If you’ve lost access, you will go to the local tinter... tinker. The... I saw they’re building a huge Toyota showroom and a repair shop. So, if you have access, you will go to the Toyota showroom when you have a Toyota, otherwise you’ll do... go to the local guy who fixes everything with a hammer (Laughs).

Alan Kasujja: And you know, that’s just one type of yoga, isn’t it? How many types of yoga exist and how do I know which one is right?

Sadhguru: On a certain day, four people were walking in the forest. One of them was a karma yogi, another was a gnana yogi, another was a bhakti yogi, another was a kriya yogi. What this means is, if you employ your body or physical action to reach your ultimate nature, we call this karma yoga, yoga of action. If you employ your intelligence to do the same, we call this gnana yoga, yoga of intelligence. If you employ your emotion to do this, we call this bhakti yoga, yoga of devotion or emotion. If you employ your energies to do that, we call this kriya yoga, yoga of transforming energies. So these four men were walking together. Usually, these four people will be f... never found together because they cannot get along, because a man… The yoga of intelligence has a very sharp intellect. Those who have a sharp intellect can’t stand devotional people. Have you seen this? Yes or no (Laughs)?

Participants: Yes.

Sadhguru: They can’t stand devotional people who’re doing “Ram Ram” all the time. They cannot stand them.

Alan Kasujja: Andrew ____ (Unclear) (Referring to a previous questioner) is one of them. He can’t stand emotional people.

Sadhguru: Yes, he is for gnana yoga candidate (Laughs). So these are the only four types of yoga you can do because these are the only four instruments you have on your hands. So these four people were walking, suddenly a thunderstorm broke loose and they started running looking for shelter. The bhakti yogi, the man of devotion said, “In this direction, there’s and ancient temple, let’s go there.” Well, they trust him with the geography of temples, so they ran there. This is an ancient temple, where the walls have all collapsed, just four columns and a roof and there’s a deity in the center. They all rushed into the temple – not because of their love for god, simply escaping the storm. Then the storm became very severe, started lashing from every direction. There was no other place, so they came closer and closer. Then they just hugged the deity and sat down, all four of them, just to escape the rain, not because they love god. And suddenly god appeared. Tch, in all their minds, the same question, “Why now? We did so many things, you did not come. Now when we’re just escaping the rain, you turn up, why now?” So god said, “At last you four idiots got together, I’ve been waiting for this for a long time (Laughter/Applause). So, yoga (Laughs)… you are not just body, just mind, just energy, just emotion, you are a combination of these things. Unless they come together in the right way, there is no yoga for you. So, you are one kind of combination, somebody else is another kind of combination, accordingly it has to be mixed. That is why a live guru is important because he mix the right concoction for you (Applause).

Alan Kasujja: Thank you very much. Let’s go to the back of the room, please. Yeah, whoever gets the microphone first.

Sadhguru: Maa, you must take the microphone, please.

Alan Kasujja: To the back of the room, please, the very back of the room. Yes, yes.

Questioner: Hi, hello, hi, I had a quick question about faith traditions. I’m actually a former graduate student in religious studies and one of the biggest challenges I have is this dichotomy that exists in religious faith, especially fervent religious faith in religions that are... or rather in people who chose to believe in their religion in a certain way. And what I mean by that is there is great beauty when you go to particular countries and you go to a mosque and there’s incredible adherence to faith that can be inspiring. And you can see that in all traditions across all countries. But often, that faith is coupled with negative attitudes, homophobia, Islamophobia, fear of the other. And my question to you is how do we see the beauty in religious faith while also avoiding some of the problematic things that happens within dogmatic belief?

Alan Kasujja: It’s a really tough one.

Sadhguru: No, it’s very simple.

Alan Kasujja: Is it?

Sadhguru: Yeah.

Alan Kasujja: Okay.

Sadhguru: See (Laughs), the thing is just this. Right now, I’m going to... This is just an experiment. Is it okay? Can I experiment with you?

Participants: Yes.

Sadhguru: This is just a simple experiment. How many of you believe in god? All such people raise your hand. Okay, that’s good. How many of you believe you have two hands, all such people raise one hand (Laughter). How many of you believe you have two hands? Okay. Do you believe you have two hands or do you know you have two hands (Laughter)? Hmm? You know you have two hands, isn’t it? If somebody starts an argument with you and tries to prove to you, you have no two hands, and suppose their argument becames... becomes too overwhelming and he’s about to prove to you that you have no hands – one slap in the face (Laughter), he will know that you got hands (Laughter). So with hands, you know, with god, you believe. I’m... I’m not trying to take it somewhere else, I just want you to understand, belief essentially comes, still because humanity has not become sincere enough to come to this – “What I know, I know, what I do not know, I do not know.” Yes (Applause)? Everything... Everything that you do not know, you must believe because belief gives you confidence. This is the biggest disaster on the planet – confidence without clarity. What you need is clarity about life, not confidence. If you cannot see... Right now, I want to walk through you, all right? But my vision is not clear, but I’m a very confident man. I’m going to walk through you but I can’t see properly – am I a disaster or no? If I can’t see properly, I must at least go gently, “I cannot see properly, please help me through this.” If you do not have clarity, at least you must have hesitation a bout what you’re doing. You have no clarity but you have confidence is a disaster. Humanity has suffered immensely for this. Maximum amount of bloodshed, maximum amount of hatred, things have happened like this. I want you to know this – people may be projecting it this way that the fight in the world is between good and bad. Like you also tried to describe, there’s a good part, there’s a bad part. There is... The fight is not between good and evil, the fight is always between one man’s belief and another man’s belief (Applause). Why is it... Why is it we cannot come to a place that we can admit what I do not know as I do not know? What is the problem? You will have a much more sincere, straighter world. Once you realize, “I do not know”, the longing to know, the seeking to know cannot be put down. It is the nature of human intelligence – if you do not know something, you will want to know it. Now we’re talking about... See, you’re not talking about god, you are not talking about heaven, you are always talking about the nature of your existence, isn’t it? Who the hell are you? How did you happen? This is the question. Because you have no answers, you’re inventing all kinds of things and believing it. It may give you confidence, it may bring you together with people, you may sing, you may dance but you will also fight because it is invariably bound to happen. For the last 2-3000 years, you have seen how many wars have happened because you believe one thing, somebody believes something else. I think it’s time humanity matures into this level of sincerity – “What I know, I know, what I do not know, I do not know.” I want you to realize the immensity of “I do not know.” If you see “I do not know”, the longing to know, the seeking to know and the possibility of knowing becomes a reality, otherwise you just believe something. Can I tell you a small... Can I tell them a small joke, Alan?

Alan Kasujja: Yeah.

Sadhguru: Because this is serious stuff, you know?

Alan Kasujja: Yeah, certainly. A small joke.

Sadhguru: Small joke. There were two young boys, very energetic. When young boys are very energetic, they are in constant trouble and they are. The parents are very embarrassed because the entire community is discussing their children. But you know, you know how to produce them but you don’t know how to fix them, isn’t it (Laughter)? So not knowing what to do, they decided to take them to the local parish priest. Because together they’re very strong, they decided to take them separately. So they took the younger boy first, made him sit down in the priest’s office and the parents left. The priest walked in with his long robes and he walked up and down. You know, it needs some drama, otherwise these things don’t work (Few laugh). So he walked up and down with a grave face. The boy sat there and did the Ping-Pong act, looking at the priest. And this priest worked up a strategy, “If I remind this boy that god is within him, all his mischief will go.” This is always the problem – people who have never raised children, they have fantastic ideas (Laughter). Those who have raised children, they know none of your goddamn ideas will work. If you have the commitment… If you have the love and commitment, you can wait out the problems. But you don’t know how to fix the problems of your children, isn’t it (Laughs)? So anyway, he came up with this strategy and suddenly in mid-stride he stopped and with a booming voice, he asked, “Where is god?” The boy looked bewildered. He looked all over because he must be somewhere in the priest’s office (Few laugh). Then the priest saw he’s not getting the point. Then he leaned on the table, pointing at the little boy – he’s giving him a clue, god is within you – “Where is god?” The boy looked even more bewildered and looked under the table (Laughter). Then the priest saw he’s not getting it. So he walked around, came close to the boy, tapping on the little boy’s chest – he’s giving a clear clue where god is – tapping on his chest, he asked, “Where is god?” The boy got up and bolted out of the room. He ran to the place, where his elder brother was, and he said, “We’re in real trouble.” The elder brother asked, “Why? What happened?” He said,” They have lost their god and they think we did it” (Laughter/Applause).

Alan Kasujja: I would like to take a few more questions but we’re pressed for time, so I’m going to try to wind up this conversation. There’re so many hands still going on… going up. I’m not sure what to do about that but... Very many hands going up. How much more time do I have? Five minutes. Okay, we shall find a way of addressing all those questions at some point but Sadhguru, let’s just wind down our conversation. I’ve always wanted to ask you, what’s with the beard? Where did that come from?

Sadhguru: I’m sorry?

Alan Kasujja: What’s with the beard?

Sadhguru: You’re trying, I can see (Laughter). I thought everybody knew about this. This is something that grows on every man (Laughter). Those who’ve removed it, you must ask them, “Why did you remove it” (Laughter)? Why’re you asking me? I did nothing about it (Laughter/Applause).

Alan Kasujja: So, you just didn’t shave then (Laughter)?

Sadhguru: I just didn’t do anything about it because I thought everything’s that’s given to me, particularly around my head, has a specific purpose (Laughs).

Alan Kasujja: So I should grow my beard as well?

Sadhguru: You can try. You’re trying, I can see (Laughter).

Alan Kasujja: Okay, that answers that. So when you’re not trying, you’re quite...

Sadhguru: No, I can say something further on that.

Alan Kasujja: Yes.

Sadhguru: See, if you ask people why they have cut this, left this, cut this, left that, whatever, all the distortions they have done (Few laugh), why, if you ask them, they say, “This is my fashion.” All right? So, it is not about fashion, it is essentially wherever there is no pain in your body, this is what you do. Suppose there was no pain in your nose, I’m sure in the name of fashion, you would have stripped it in many different ways (Laughter). Suppose there was no pain in your entire body, I’m sure in the name of fashion, you would pull out your intestines and swing it (Laughter). If there was no pain, you think people wouldn’t do it? They would do all kinds of things. Or in other words, right now for most human beings, it is not their sense which is preserving them, it is their pain which is preserving them, which is not a good way to live.

Alan Kasujja: That’s interesting (Applause). And when you’re not offering this amazing... this amazing wisdom and insight, you’re riding motorbikes and riding fast cars. What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven by the way?

Sadhguru: 342.

Alan Kasujja: 342? Kilometers an hour? What were you trying to do, kill yourself (Laughter)?

Sadhguru: No, I... I am not a foolish driver, I’m a good driver (Laughter/Applause).

Alan Kasujja: And I know that... that you love Indian classical music. What other music do you listen to? Do you listen to Lady Gaga, hip-hop or these other things (Laughter)?

Sadhguru: There was a time when rock and roll was everything. My parents were steeped in classical music but we hated it – the children, me and my brother. We would turn up rock and roll at full volume, just so that this classical music by accident doesn’t enter my ear and pollute me, okay? This’s how I was. But it happened to me, I became meditative over a period of time. One day, I was on motorcycle – it... it was in the Mysore University, this was such a distinct and powerful experience for me – and I was just riding. I heard a powerful sound, you know, some musical instrument that I can’t recognize. It just... It just gripped me like that and just drew me. It’s not like I decided to go there. I just went, there’s an open air theater, I just rode up to that place and I parked there and I just looked. And somebody was playing... today I know it is a rudra veena. It’s played in a very mild, slow way. It’s not like dhang, dhang, dhang.

Alan Kasujja: Not like rock and roll.

Sadhguru: It’s like dhyaan, dhyaan, it’s going. This sound just gripped me from within. I just sat there on my motorcycle, tears were coming out of my eyes, just the sound was just destabilizing everything inside me. It just shook me through and through. From that day (Laughs), suddenly my ear for classical music just evolved into a big possibility. And today, we are… one of the major music festivals in India happens in the Yoga Center. The rock and roll was important because it moves your body and boom, boom, boom. But once you become still within you, suddenly this classical music... When I say classical, the Indian classical music is made in such a way, if you listen to it carefully, you will see your body will become still and erect. You will see people unknowingly will sit like this. I must tell you this. This is about ten years ago, when I f... when we first started this school, Home School. I went there, all these six, six-and-a-half-year-old children, in the morning assembly, I went there to see them. They are all like this (Gestures), like this (Gestures), like this (Gestures), like this (Gestures). I said why are these kids like broken tops? And I thought what to do with them? I just taught them the seven notes – sa, re, ga, ma, pa, dha, ni, sa, these are the seven notes. Twelve minutes a day. I’ll tell you, after a month-and-a-half I go there, they’re all sitting like this (Gestures), unmoving. That’s the impact it has on the system, a proper arrangement of sounds because sound is a reverberation. Today modern science is proving to you, everything in the existence is just a reverberation of energy. Your idea of physicality is a myth. If you get the sounds right, you can make it coincide with who you are, you can make it relate to the larger reality. This is called as nadha yoga, that means coming to a state of union within yourself just by using sounds. So, the music has this. When you’re young, you like something that moves your body, so it was rock and roll, now you’re saying it’s hip-hop (Laughs).

Alan Kasujja: And finally, when it’s all said and done, how do you want to be remembered?

Sadhguru: I want everybody to be so blissed out that they wouldn’t care to remember me (Few laugh). Miserable people always remember. Joyful people may have things in memory but it’s not such a big thing. So if people are always saying, “Sadhguru, Sadhguru”, this means they’re not still complete. I want every one of them to be so complete that I am unemployed and they don’t have to remember me. It’s a good thing (Laughs).

Alan Kasujja: Ladies and gentlemen, the Sadhguru, a round of applause (Applause). Thank you, thank you very much (Laughter). And I was going to say thank you so much for being such an amazing audience and apologies to the people whose questions I couldn’t take today. And the Sadhguru will be conducting... We’ll give you a little more information in a few moments about how more you can interact with the Sadhguru. Again, my name is Alan Kasujja and thank you very much (Applause).

Sadhguru: Thank you (Laughs).