In an episode of the In Conversation With The Mystic series, Sadhguru has a lively and insightful discussion with actress, film producer and former Miss India, Juhi Chawla. They discuss various aspects of life, love, relationships, parenting and much more.
About In Conversation with the Mystic
In Conversation with the Mystic is an exclusive series of interactive episodes where eminent personalities from various walks of life explore a range of subjects with Sadhguru, who, amidst engaging stories and witty jokes, bridges the gap between the modern and the mystical, opening the door to deeper dimensions of life.
The first episode of In Conversation saw award-winning filmmaker Shekhar Kapur joining Sadhguru in a dialogue about love, life, and longing. Since then, there has been no looking back, be it Chris Rado – professional car racer from California – or Anupam Kher – award winning actor and social activist – the series has been a riveting adventure.
Sadhguru: Good evening everyone.
Juhi Chawla: Good evening everyone.
Sadhguru: Nobody is saying anything (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: (Laughs) No they are all here but they are very silent. They are all waiting for it all to begin and let me tell you… I have to confess, as I came on - before this I was quite relaxed - but as I’ve come on to the stage, my heart is beating really fast. So, (Laughs) while Guruji was praying, I was saying to myself, “I must be relaxed. This is the time. When I am with my Guru, I must be relaxed that this is it.” So, yes I will calmly begin by thanking you Sadhguruji, for giving me this opportunity to be in conversation with you. Isha Foundation, thank you very much.
Sadhguru: I… I thought when we are talking about ‘Of love and life,’ heart beating is a good thing (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: (Laughs) Okay, yes it’s a good thing. It shows I’m alive and in love and about to begin this conversation. And Sadhguruji, I want to say, I have attended your Inner Engineering program, I have seen some DVDs, I have read your books. And everywhere there are your brilliant views on various issues. It could be from the making of a nation to the making of a toy car, from the running of a household to the running of parliament. You have brilliant views on every issue that one can ever question. Yet I know very little about you and it… You know here’s a brilliant mind with an… for lack of better words, I would say ‘out-of-the-Box’ thinking - so different, so refreshing, so enlightening. I am fascinated and I want to know about your life. And I’d like to know that… I mean, were you just born brilliant (Laughter)? Did it begin from that very moment?
Sadhguru: I… I… I was a normal birth. I didn’t come in a box (Laughter). My mother had a normal child.
Juhi Chawla: No, you know, I’m from the movies and I can’t help thinking – was it like it is in story books, that a venerable sage came to your home and when he looked at your mother, he said (Laughter), “There is going to be born a Guru. Rejoice. He will lighten his own path and that of others?
Sadhguru: You also… You also going like this? (Laughter)
Juhi Chawla: No, but was it like that or how was it? How was your childhood? Ho…
Sadhguru: I don’t think they all came to listen to my mother’s labor pains (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: No, I’m really fascinated, intrigued that we’re all here… but you know, the way you think, we wait to hear what you have to say. We’ve all been little children and we’ve all grown up but we’ve grown up and been educated in schools and… but I find our way of thinking, our way of being very conditioned, like almost systematized. Whereas, so where…where did it all begin?
Sadhguru: I think you’re looking for something unnatural that happened there (Laughs). One thing that could be considered unnatural was – it seems I was a very delayed birth. My mother went to the hospital three times and came back and she gave up that he’s not coming (Laughter). And when it actually happened, it happened at home. My father being a physician, that was not possible, she… she had to be in the hospital. Three times she went and three times it didn’t happen. They did everything possible and she gave up, so it happened at home. So, that’s the only reasonably unnatural thing. Everything else was natural – birth, I didn’t come in a box (Juhi Laughs). And I refused to be educated (Laughs).
So, what is… I mean the question that you’re asking is, do people grow up and blossom or are they brought up by somebody? You will see the general expression is, “I was brought up in this place, I was brought up in that way.” Especially in the West, you will see, “I was brought up Christian”, “I was brought up Jewish” – these are very common words. I think it’s absolutely ridiculous and humiliating that a human being has to be brought up. You bring up cattle, okay? You don’t bring up a human being. A human being is supposed to blossom by his own nature. That is why he’s on the top of the pile, at least on this planet, in the evolutionary scale. And most human beings don’t seem to understand that or they are not allowed to understand that by a whole lot of people and they need to be brought up. Bringing up means somebody is molding you. Molding means it’s a predetermined shape. And no flower that blossoms is the same way as another one, which blossomed yesterday. But a mold means it’s always going to be the same. If you make a mold, the idea of making a mold is that we want to have the same form, again and again and again.
Right now, generally that seems to be the work unfortunately of the current education system, the so-called religions that are operating in the world and of course the family. They want you to be in a certain mold, they don’t want you to blossom like a wild flower because they’re afraid of anything fresh happening among them. They want something that is familiar. They don’t want something unfamiliar to be born among them. So, if you have succumbed to that system, then yes, you’ve been molded into a certain form. If you allow your humanity to blossom, then you will see, you don’t belong to any mold. This is the beauty of being human that there is no a particular way to be. If you were a dog you would be one way, if you were cattle you would be one way, if you were a sheep you would be another way, if you’re bird - another way, a grass… a grasshopper - another way. But to be human means there is no particular way.
What is human is not defined, nor described, it is… it is just that for every other creature on this planet, nature drew two lines; within that they have to play their game. For a human being, only the bottom line is drawn, there is no top line. But socially, people are trying to draw a top line for themselves. But nature has not drawn a top line for you, it’s a limitless possibility and this is what is freaking human beings right now. Because they can’t decide what they can (Laughs)… need to be. They’re trying to be like somebody else. Only bottom line is set, top line has been removed – this is evolution.
Juhi Chawla: But wait, we still didn’t quite get to… So how was it when you were a child, were you… were you put into a school to go the systematic way and did you keep up with it…
Sadhguru: Do I… Do I look that edu… educated? Don’t insult me like that (Laughter). Actually you know, when I go and stand in the line… in the immigration lines, in particularly in America, they look at me and say, “Can you speak English?” I say (Nods his head affirmatively) (Laughter) because I have that uneducated look, it’s not easy (Laughter). Do you know… Do you know what it takes to remain uneducated? Education is just twenty years of going somewhere and getting one certificate. To remain uneducated, it’s very difficult because from the day you’re born, your parents, every other adult, the school, the damn thing – everybody is trying to educate you…
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: …about something that’s not worked in their life (Laughter & Applause).
Juhi Chawla:. And then did you also, like we all went through these confused teenage years of not really knowing where we’re going, I mean did you clearly know your path?
Sadhguru: Not at all. I was, right from three or four years of age, I was always a million questions hanging in… in my head. I have (had?) a question about everything - everything to everything. Questions means, very fundamental questions about existence itself, my own existence. I… I am (have?) told this many times… many of… I see lots of familiar faces, so let me kind of abridge it and say it as briefly as possible. See, when I was three, four years of age, I realized one thing – suddenly, I realized one day, I don’t know anything. My memory for some reason always has been like this – when I was three, four months of age or even less than that, I remember everything that happened around me, even today. Not some earthshaking events, simple things – the color of my mother’s sari, the conversation, the crib that is creaking because somebody forgot to oil it, you know (Juhi Laughs) – all this kind of things – the color of the ceiling, the way the insects were moving around, all these things I still remember. My memory’s been… always been like that.
So, when I was three, four years of age, suddenly I realized I know nothing. Know nothing means – somebody gives me a glass of water, I do not know what is water. I know how to use it, I know if I drink it, it will quench my thirst and so many other ways of using it but I do not know what is water. I’m saying even today, you do not know what is water. It’s the only thing available in all three states on the planet. Three… two thirds of the planet is water, two thirds of your body is water. If we think life, we think water. But do you know what it is? With all the scientific exploration, we do not even know a single atom in its entirety. Today, our idea of science is, learning how to use everything. Yes? We know how to use an atom, we know how to break it, we know how to fuse it but we really do not know what it is. Any one thing, tiniest thing in the creation, we do not know in its entirety, this is the fact of life.
Juhi Chawla: Well even something simple as what you started with, saying that looking at water. I mean, straight away I was taught water - H2O and what it can do and it… you can mix it with colors and it becomes that. You can drink it and it quenches your thirst. But I never looked at it and said you know, “I don’t really know what is water.”
Sadhguru: Because nobody looks at anything. See, everybody is looking like this, nobody has any attention for a piece of life here. They’re like this (Gestures). If you pay attention to one life, one blade of grass, one grasshopper, one human being, something else will happen. That’s why we said ‘life and love’ because if you pay attention to one human being, some love will happen within you, okay? If you miss life, at least some emotion in that direction must happen to you. That will happen only if you pay attention to one. If you’re looking at like this (Gestures) …These days it’s become a fashion because you’re in love on Facebook. You love the whole humanity. To love one human being… if you want to love one human being, it costs life. To love the whole humanity, it doesn’t cost anything. It’s even better to love God because it’s always easy to love somebody who is not here now (Juhi Laughs), it’s so easy.
But if you have to love somebody who is sitting next to you right now, it costs life. You know how difficult it is to love someone who is next to you right now, how easy it is to love someone who is dead or who is in heaven? Isn’t it so? Let’s face it. Because if you have to love one, one thing is you have to pay attention. Without attention, it will not happen. And above all, you have to give up something that is you, to accommodate another, otherwise it will not happen. The English expression, it’s very good – “You must fall in love.” You cannot rise in love, you cannot stand in love, you cannot fly in love, you have to fall. Something of you should fall, otherwise it will not work. You will not know it. So, you want to have a fake sense of life, then you don’t pay attention to anything, everything is information. Nothing is a living experience. Everything is from the textbook or from the cinema or from the internet. Nothing is from life’s experience. You’re doing more and more today of that.
Juhi Chawla: Sadhguruji, you just mentioned love and today it is about ‘life and love’ and I would like to know, have you loved?
Sadhguru: Do I look like someone who has not loved, what are you asking? (Laughter) What is this she’s asking, do I look like someone who’s never loved in my life? What is this?
Juhi Chawla: No, but like… So, for us it is maybe love your family members, whoever it could be. I… I… Why I ask you this is because there’re so many versions of this and I really want to get to it. Some teachers, some Gurus, some guides will say you know, “You can love but you must be detached…”
Sadhguru: Ohoho (Laughs)…
Juhi Chawla: …you must love but it cannot be conditional. It should be unconditional and… So, there’s versions of it, I just want to know, so have you….
Sadhguru: See, the simple… the simple way of make you keep coming back to me is to give you something that you cannot do, to give you a teaching which you can never do. You must love, but you must be detached – now you have to keep coming back to me for consultation (Laughter), endlessly.
Juhi Chawla: (Laughs) Sorry.
Sadhguru: I’m saying throw yourself into your love affair and die into it. Something will happen. Something worthwhile will happen if you’re willing to die into the process, not just anything – whether it’s your work or your life or your love or whatever, if you do not know how to throw your entire self into it, you will never know the taste of what it is. “Love, but be detached” - what… why do you want to love then? (Laughter) Only because you want to include somebody as a part of your life… part of yourself, that’s why you love. “No, I love but I… I’m detached.” This means you have to come back to consultation, every day. It is like a psychiatrist’s job – everyday you have to come and sit on the couch. You need treatment and there is a fee (Laughs).
Juhi Chawla: So… Okay all right, so you can love and be attached…
Sadhguru: No, no, I didn’t say that (Laughter)…
Juhi Chawla: Okay, I’m coming back for consultation, please (Laughter). So, what did you say?
Sadhguru: I only said, see what is this need for love in a human being? You must understand, a human being constantly, constantly, a human being is longing to be something more than what they are right now. If this finds a simple basic physical expression, we call this sexuality. Sexuality means just this – physically you’re trying to make something which is not you, a part of yourself. For a few moments you may succeed. If you try this mentally, it gets labeled as greed, conquest or maybe simply shopping - shopping, shopping.
Juhi Chawla: Oh.
Sadhguru: Some people go for conquest with swords and guns, some people go with cheque books and cash, you know credit cards. The thing is you want to include something which is not a part of you as yourself – that is the whole effort. Tch, whether you want money or wealth or you want to occupy a nation, what is it? Something that is not you, you want to make it yours. Yours is an effort to make it a part of yourself. If it happens emotionally, on the emotional level if you try this, we call this a love affair. You’re trying to make somebody who is not a part of you, a part of yourself emotionally – this is a love affair.
If you do it consciously, we call this yoga. Yoga means union. So, all these efforts are fine, everything has its own beauty but has its own limitations. When you understand the limitations of all the other methods, nothing right or wrong about it, it is just that it will work briefly, it will not work for always. When you realize that, you consciously try to include. When you consciously become an inclusive process, if you sit here, if you experience everything as yourself then we say you are a yogi, okay? So, this is a love affair, successful.
Juhi Chawla: So something you said at the end which I would like to ask you again and this was something yes I heard at… even at the Inner Engineering program. I understood it a little bit so I’m back for consultation. You said love, inclusiveness – I can’t understand how I can love everybody in this room.
Sadhguru: You cannot. There are some people you cannot love (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: I can barely see, up there and up there. So, how is tha… how do you include everybody in your love?
Sadhguru: See because you’re looking at love as something that comes to you or you yield to the process of love, only because you appreciate a particular quality – a shape of somebody’s nose or the shape of their mind or their thought or their emotion or the way they speak or the way they do things or the way they relate to you, something, okay? There’re many many things. It is based on something that is acceptable to you. If they do something that is not acceptable to you, love crumbles.
Juhi Chawla: (Laughs) Yes.
Sadhguru: Now what I’m saying is, I want you to look at this – whether love happens to you or hate happens to you, anger happens to you, misery happens to you, joy happens to you – it only happens within you, isn’t it?
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: It never… People say love is in the air, no. Because you are feeling very pleasant in your emotions, suddenly air feels vibrant. It always been, you missed it all your life, now you’re beginning to feel it.
Juhi Chawla: (Laughs) Okay. Okay.
Sadhguru: All right? So, whatever human experience – love or hate, whatever, whatever – happens only within you. What I am saying is at least what happens within you must happen by your choice, consciously you must be able to make it happen. If you’re able to, if your experience or what is happening within you is happening by choice, what is the problem? It only happens within you. Love is not a relationship. A relationship is a different thing. Love is a certain sweetness of your emotion. Whether you look at a tree or a dog or a man or a woman or a child or just at the sky, why can’t you look at it lovingly? Because it’s not about loving the sky, it’s about the sweetness of your emotion. If your emotions are sweet, whatever you look at, you will look at it in a certain way. Right now you have nasty emotions, whatever you look at, you look at it in a different way. So, you have always associated love with somebody. No, no, no, this is not about somebody – love is not something that you do, it is something that you can become. If you’re willing, you can become love, you can make your emotion into a very sweet space.
You ca… If you make your mi… If you make your body very pleasant, it becomes pleasure. If you sit here, it can be great pleasure just sitting here and breathing. This is what we’re teaching people, if you sit… I will show you millions of people, if they close their eyes, tears of ecstasy will just drip, nothing – simply close your eyes. Ecstatic they are, bursting – every cell in their body because body has become so pleasant. If your mind becomes pleasant, we say this is joy. If your emotions become pleasant, we say this is love. If your very life energies become pleasant, we say this is blissfulness, this is ecstasy. If your surroundings become pleasant, we call that success. Now you’re calling your success with somebody as love, that’s a mistake. You have a success story with somebody – that is, you have created pleasantness in the atmosphere between you and let’s say five-ten people around you. You’re calling that love; no that is actually success because that needs lots of management.
Juhi Chawla: Yes, it does.
Sadhguru: Yes or no?
Juhi Chawla: Yes it does.
Sadhguru: Yes. But for you to be loving, there is no management. If you just make your emotions sweet, your emotions are sweet and it’s beautiful be… be like this. It’s not about anybody. If somebody comes, we can share it. If nobody comes, you can sit here with eyes closed and still be loving, what’s the problem? It is not about somebody, it’s not an action. It is not something that you do, it is something that you can become (Applause).
Juhi Chawla: It’s a… It’s a lovely, idyllic…
Sadhguru: It is not idyllic, it is… it is the way it is.
Juhi Chawla: It is… I mean you’d really have to practice this.
Juhi Chawla: Because I’m thinking…
Sadhguru: See, this is what exactly I’m saying – if it is an action, an action comes to perfection with practice, only if it’s an action. I’m saying love is not an act. Is health an act? Are you acting healthy right now?
Juhi Chawla: No.
Sadhguru: I know you’re an actor, but are you acting healthy?
Juhi Chawla: (Laughs) No.
Sadhguru: So health is, because…
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: …you have done certain things and health is. Isn’t it?
Juhi Chawla: Oh, we’ve not done certain things…
Sadhguru: Oh, we have definite…
Juhi Chawla: …we’ve been given…
Sadhguru: No, no, no, no. Oh, we’ve been given, but if you eat bad, if you live bad, you won’t be healthy.
Juhi Chawla: Hmm.
Sadhguru: We’ve done certain things to manage our health. Simp… Similarly, if you do certain things, you can manage the pleasantness of your mind. If you do certain other things, you can manage the pleasantness of your emotion. If you do certain other things, you can manage the pleasantness of your very life energies. This is things that you can do. Now, what you can do internally, you’re trying to manage externally. What can be done here within you, you are trying to manage by creating an atmosphere around you which is a very difficult thing to do, because outside will never happen hundred percent the way you want it. To some extent we can manage, we can’t do all of it by ourselves because there are many forces involved.
Juhi Chawla: Sadhguruji, you said something about health. And you said, you do certain things for yourself, certain things, one - you’re given health and then how you maintain it is you eat well, you exercise and you remain healthy. Now, to be loving when maybe in a household, any situation, maybe outside, like you said, outside forces are not pleasant – it doesn’t come easily to then just be loving. So, what should you do to…? I mean what is the practice to become that way or to train yourself to be that way?
Sadhguru: I… I want to remove this idea from your mind. You believe you need to practice. Practice means you’re trying to perfet… perfect an action, isn’t it?
Juhi Chawla: To be loving at all times…
Sadhguru: Yes, yes that’s not an act.
Juhi Chawla: No, not an act, but to be so accepting…
Sadhguru: No, I don’t want to… I don’t want to go back to the movies, okay? (Juhi Laughs)
Juhi Chawla: No, to be so accepting because…
Sadhguru: No, it’s not about accepting. Right now, do you want to keep your mind… your thought process pleasant or nasty? Tell me, what is your choice?
Juhi Chawla: Ideally pleasant.
Sadhguru: Just tell me, pleasant or nasty? You’re thinking about it, this is…
Juhi Chawla: No, I am trying to think should I fox you and say nasty (Laughter).
Sadhguru: (Laughs) Say it.
Juhi Chawla: (Laughs) Okay, nasty.
Sadhguru: I’m going to bless you now (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: No, no, no. Okay I take back my words (Applause). Okay. All right, so…
Sadhguru: Any human being’s choice for themselves is definitely pleasantness, isn't it?
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: Body, mind, emotion, everything and surroundings – you want it pleasant.
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: So why is it not pleasant? Surroundings are not pleasant because of many things…
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: If your thought and emotion are not pleasant, it’s entirely you, isn’t it?
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: Surroundings – not entirely me, it’s so many forces. We have to manage them, we have to juggle them, not always are we successful with everything around us. You know different people have different levels of competence to manage the outside. Not all of us have the same… what to say, the skill to manage the outside. But inside, your emotion and your thought, why is it not happening your way? This is something we have to look at. This has to be addressed, every human being has to address this. At least your thought and your emotion must happen the way you want it.
It’s like this – on a certain day, a lady went to sleep. A lady went to sleep; in her sleep – she had a dream. I think up there (Gestures) - oh there are two strata of people, nobody is asleep right (Laughter)? So that I could pick on you, I’m just looking if I can see. She went to sleep, up there (Gestures) and in her dream… She had a dream, in her dream she saw a hunk of a man standing in that corner. And then he started coming closer and closer and closer. He came so close she could even feel his breath. She trembled, not in fear and then she asked, “What will you do to me?” The man said, “Well lady, it’s your dream (Laughter).”
Juhi Chawla: Okay.
Sadhguru: I’m saying what’s happening in your mind is your bloody dream. Now the problem with life is – n… not that life is not happening the way you want it, even your dream is not happening the way you want it, that’s the problem (Laughter). I’m saying at least fix this, at least let the dream happen the way you want it. If you were dreaming the way you want right now, your thought and your emotion would be pleasant, isn’t it?
Juhi Chawla: Yes, but it… Well…
Sadhguru: Fixing the world is another thing, that’s a different game. That needs lot of skill, this needs just willingness.
Why we’re continuously talking about joy, blissfulness, love, is not because it’s a goal by itself, these are not goals by itself -only by… when you are pleasant by your own nature, you stop being in pursuit of happiness. You are fine by yourself, you don’t have to go anywhere to feel pleasant. You don’t have to do anything to feel pleasant, sitting here you’re feeling very pleasant, now you will look at life the way it is. Otherwise, you’re an endless race, pursuit of your happiness is a lifelong thing. Till your deathbed you’re pursuing, what does it mean? That means you’re a failure. If you’re pursuing happiness when you are five, I can understand, but that was not the fact, when you’re five you were simply happy by your own nature. When you’re fifty, you’re pursuing your happiness - this is a failed story, isn’t it?
Juhi Chawla: But, Sadhguruji, suppose we say this to the common man, wh… who has a little house…
Sadhguru: Where did you meet a common man?
Juhi Chawla:(Laughs). I’m imagining it, that you know, they have so many chores to do in a day…
Sadhguru: No, what I’m, saying is every… every man or woman think they’re special, believe me…
Juhi Chawla: Oh yes.
Sadhguru: Yes. So where did you meet a common man, I’m asking (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: Okay, Sadhguruji when you said about the common person and the special person, I know some teachers have always told us and why your own parents always tell you that you know – you are special, each one of us is unique and each one of us is special…
Sadhguru: No. No, my parents told me “You’re freaky (Laughter).” See, they never said, I’m special (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: We’ll come back to our parents now and I remember this part, I am not sure whether I heard it at your discourse or on a DVD of yours, where you said… It was about you know people being special and us always thinking that God knows of us. And you said something like, “Do you know all the grasshoppers in your garden?” So, of course all of us have said, “No”. So, you said something like, “So, how does God know each one of you then?” And I was devastated because I always thought somebody up there knows me, cares about me and I’m special.
Sadhguru: You thought… you thought you’re number o…. you thought you were number one on his books, is it?
Juhi Chawla: Well, I’ve been told since I was kid, “You’re special, you’re unique and God cares about you.”
Sadhguru: Let me tell… Tch, tch, tch… See, if when somebody says you’re unique, it’s an insult (Juhi Laughs), you know…
Juhi Chawla: No, you said – no top line, so you’re…
Juhi Chawla: …peaking in different ways.
Sadhguru: It’s like this – in this vast cosmos, this solar system is just a speck. Tomorrow morning if the whole solar system disappears, vanishes, evaporates, nobody will even notice it. Maybe it’s not even in the accounts books of creation, it’s so small. In this speck of a solar system, planet earth is a super speck. In that, Mumbai is a micro super speck. In that, you are a big man or a woman (Laughter). This is a huge problem. This is a very immense existential problem, you know (Laughs). This is because we have lost perspective as to who we are, what we are. Our psychological realities have become bigger than the cosmo… than the cosmic reality. That is the big problem. It’s time you step out of your cinema… I’m… I’m not talking about the Hindi cinema, I’m talking about the cinema that everybody is playing in their own minds. See, a cine… See right now they darkened this whole hall because it works best that way. This is the basic technology of a cinema. If you do not darken the cinema hall, if you light it up and play a nice cinema, it’s not going to work. You have to darken it. So, I’m saying, a cinema of your mind because it’s a dark space. Every thought is enlarged, playing out bigger than the cosmic space. Today, everything in the cosmos is happening perfectly well, but you have one nasty thought crawling in your head and it feels like a bad day, isn’t it?
Juhi Chawla: Yes. Yes.
Sadhguru: So, that’s because your psychological realities, your petty creation has become larger than the Creator’s creation. You lost perspective of life. That is the fundamental basis of all this confusion and suffering. If you see who you are, the micro speck that you are, you wouldn’t imagine that God is made in your own image and he looks like you and whatever. Okay, if… if we were all buffalos, we would definitely think God is a big buffalo (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: Okay. Okay, so what is it really? Please tell us the… Please define it for us, what is it? What is going on – this life, this love. All these emotions that we go through in our lives, all these thoughts that we create for ourselves, what is going on?
Sadhguru: See… These are all human possibilities and capabilities. Every possibility becomes a problem for those who do not explore the possibility in its right perspective. Thought is a tremendous possibility. An ant cannot think like you, he can work better than you, he’s more disciplined, he betters main… better traffic rules than you, there’s no traffic jam out there (Laughter), okay but he cannot think like you.
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: That sets up apart. This is a possibility. But now, this possibility has become a problem for ninety percent of the humanity. Now they’re freaking because they can think and they’re thinking all the wrong things. Their thoughts have become nasty; if they were pleasant they would have enjoyed their thought process. Because it’s become nasty, it’s becoming a (an?) ailment, isn’t it? People are suffering their thoughts immensely, because they do not know how to keep it pleasant, nothing has been done towards it. So, what is a possibility always becomes a problem if you do not explore it in the right perspective. So your thought and emotion has become a problem, now love affair is a problem, you’re making all kinds of things out of it, which are all coming from this misunderstanding, not understanding this thought and emotion is generated by me, I can generate it whichever way I want. If nastiness is what you like, you do it. I don’t care if that’s what you like but you’re suffering it. If you’re suffering it, you shouldn’t be doing it.
I am not telling you, “Be loving.” What is your choice – pleasantness or unpleasantness? If unpleasantness is your choice, you enjoy it and do it, what’s my problem? You want to drink poison, what is my problem? I am just telling you this is poison, this is this – drink whatever you want, but by choice. Don’t drink unconsciously, that’s stupid. That’s not befitting of a human being, a human being means we are far more conscious than every other creature on this planet – that’s what sets us apart. Every creature eats but we can eat consciously. So our eating becomes so many things. Every creature has sexual drives, they go and fulfill it whichever way. We can do it consciously. So, we become something, something. We’re doing the same things but we’re doing it consciously, suddenly there is a magic about it, not because sex is magic, food is magic, no, because we can do it consciously. Every basic act like eating and copulating becomes magical because we can do it consciously.
Juhi Chawla: Okay, Sadhguruji let’s go to, hmm…
Sadhguru: I’ve seen people copying answers in examination but never questions…
Juhi Chawla: Yeah questions (Laughs). Well, okay so today is ‘life, love’ and I feel marriage is also a part of it, a big part of life and I read this very amusing little quote where it said, “Congratulations…” about marriage… “Congratulations, you’ve finally found that special, one special person, you want to annoy for the rest of your life (Laughter).” So, I’d just like to know what do you think of this.
Sadhguru: The problem is if they get seasoned enough, they may not even be annoyed (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: And if they learn to be blissful, maybe they will be quite… quite…
Sadhguru: That is different. Let me tell you, this happened – a nice Catholic gal… girl in Tennessee went on a date. She came back and she was looking really depressed. Her mother came and said, “Mary what happened, how did the date go? Why are you… why are you looking so miserable?” So, she said, “Momma, Anthony proposed to me.” “That’s wonderful, you must be happy. Why are you so unhappy?” “No Momma, he’s a atheist. He doesn’t even believe there is hell.” She said, “Just…” Mother said, “Just go ahead and get him… get married to him. Between the two of them, we’ll prove him wrong.” (Laughter)
Juhi Chawla: At… Okay, so… So marriage is the butt of many many jokes but…
Sadhguru: But still everyone gets into it…
Juhi Chawla: I guess everybody wants to… Yes, have a laugh about something you can’t quite fix. Today, many women in our modern society are stepping out and having a career and I just like to know, what do you think of this - of women stepping out, being career people, managing home as well, being financially independent, is this good?
Sadhguru: I think… see every woman should do what she wants to do as an individual person. It should not be made into a trend in a society or the only right thing to do in the world because I think if… if a woman is… intends to have two children and raise them, I think it’s a full time job. I’m not saying she should not go out and work. If she wishes to, as an individual person, she’s free to do what she wants to do. But having two children is not about reproduction. You’re manufacturing the next generation of people. How the world will be tomorrow, will be determined by what kind of mothers you have today, believe me.
So, why is it con… you know, I’ve seen many ladies coming to me and say, when I ask “What’re you doing? “Oh I’m just a housewife.” I said, “Why do you say, you’re just a housewife?” You… you don’t u… seem to understand the significance of, you know, being able to nurture two or three new lives. It’s not… it’s not a ‘not important’ job. It’s a very important job. I’ve to say this, I… you know my… my mother never any ss… said anything much. She never went about telling me, “I love you” or “You love me” or anything of this kind. It’s just that she simply lived and we… it never occurred to us, whether she loves us, she doesn’t love us, such questions never came because her whole life was dedicated to us, you know.
Juhi Chawla: Hmm.
Sadhguru: We know she lived for us. She never said it once, but that’s all it is. And I cannot imagine that part of my life, without her being around. It is just that she never played an active role in what I am but the background that she set, without the ambience that she set for me¸ I would never be what I am, for sure. Whatever else may be within me, still the soil that she set around me, without ever interfering with who I am, what I am, just the ambience she set around me and the effort she took to set that ambience, she gave her life to set that ambience, knowing fully well it will play out somewhere. And why does anybody think this is not an important job? In my life, I feel what she did is the most important thing she did to me. And one of the most important things that have happened to me is early life you never had to think about anything. It was simply she made sure the background was simply always there, without a single thought about it, unconcerned about what’s happening around you is what gave me the possibility of sitting with my eyes closed for days on end or staring at something for hours on end. Otherwise, this wouldn’t be possible, I’m saying (Laughs).
So, career - I want you to understand… Right now because we have made the whole world into economics unfortunately women also getting as stupid as men. As if how much money you earn is going to determine the value of your life. No, it is just procurement of things that you need, money is just about that. Man was procuring, woman was taking about the more beautiful aspects of life. Now woman also wants to procure. If there is such an economic need in the family, fine she must do it. But it is not a compulsive need, it must not be set up as something better to do than doing something. If she sings so… if she… if she plays music or if she just loves her children or if she cooks beautifully or she just lives beautifully like a flower, it’s good enough, I’m saying. It is not necessary that only if she earns this much money, she’s… her… she’s doing something valuable, otherwise she’s not. If there’s an economic need, she can do it. Or if she has a passion for doing it, she can do it. But, let not such values be set up in the world because you’re not evolving, you’re regressing, you’re making survival more important than aesthetics of life (Applause).
Juhi Chawla: Yes, and why I was asking you something like this was sort of like I’m also still acting or working, in bits and pieces and yes I do find that while I’m a role model for many women who look up to me and say, you know, “I’d like to be a little like her where she works as well and she has a home and everything seems to be so wonderful”, there are days when I am overwhelmed because I feel there are so many things to juggle and I’m trying to do it all, everyday…
Sadhguru: I’m… I’m not against you doing being overwhelmed every day because (Juhi Laughs) if life doesn’t overwhelm you, what the hell are you doing here?
Juhi Chawla: So, it’s okay to be…
Sadhguru: Every… every moment of life should overwhelm you.
Juhi Chawla: Oh (Laughs).
Sadhguru: That’s how I live. For me, if I just look at a tree, it overwhelms me, if you (I?) look at a man or a woman or a child, it overwhelms me. Just about anything overwhelms me. If life does not overwhelm you, what are you doing here? Are you here dodging life? If you look at any aspect of life, if you touch anything, genuinely touch anything, you will always be overwhelmed. Life is about being overwhelmed, not about avoiding being overwhelmed and becoming constipated (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: Okay, so I’m glad I’m on the right path, then. That gives me a happier feeling about this…
Sadhguru: No, I’m not saying being overwhelmed means being tense. I’m saying being overwhelmed.
Juhi Chawla: I know, I know. I was just taking it the other way.
Juhi Chawla: Yes, you meaned (meant?)…
Sadhguru: I’m not calling…
Juhi Chawla: …by the depth and beauty of everything that is around…
Sadhguru: Yes. Not by stress.
Juhi Chawla: Not by stress (Laughs). Okay, I’ll try to look for the depth and beauty in everything that happens around me.
Sadhguru: Yes, there are some things that we can do and some things we cannot do, so what about it? There are some things we can successfully fulfill; there are some things we cannot. So what about it? Because you’re always concerned somebody is watching, if they see you making a fool of yourself, you will fall down. I have no issue. Right now, any place I go, with microphone on, I’ll sing. I don’t know damn thing about music, I am just shameless, so I sing (Laughter). What’s the problem? If you don’t like it, it’s up to you. I sing because I like.
Juhi Chawla: (Laughs) I wish we could all be like this.
Sadhguru: I don’t make it very long, I make it brief, that’s all (Laughter).
JuhiChawla: Okay Sadhguruji. Let me take you away from this and let me take you to a world of say films where I come from…
Sadhguru: Of… of what? I didn’t get…
JuhiChawla: World of films.
Sadhguru: World of films, okay, let’s go. Let’s go movies (Laughter).
JuhiChawla: Years ago when films started and you know through the sixties, seventies there were lovely stories, nice values, beautiful music, lyrics; by the time I was the star in movies some of our Jhatka matka’s might have shocked the previous generations and they must have said what is all this? But it was still within limits…
Sadhguru: Whose limits (Laughter)?
JuhiChawla:…I mean what’s acceptable to society, whatever have been, I’ll say… and then now today the complexion of films, the kind of films we see, you know it’s little clothed, it’s live-in relationships or you know up there on screen for everybody to see and night club culture. I mean it sometimes worries me that my children are growing up now this is what they’re seeing, this is… these are the kind of songs that they’re listening to, the lyrics are about you know…
Sadhguru: From Janam janam to expiry date is the song (Laughter).
JuhiChawla: Yes. So this is the… this is what they’re watching, this is what they think is cool, this is… this is the hip and happening stuff. I’m little…
Sadhguru: I think by the time you came the janam janam was over, isn’t it (Laughter)?
JuhiChawla: No, it was still there, it was in the middle somewhere, the music was wonderful, the lyrics was still lovely but today it is munni badhnaam ho gayi and it things… things have really moved to chewing gums and I’m forgetting at this moment what the lyrics are but then its… its… its… shallow right now. So and this is what like you said that we have a whole India has the youngest population in the world right now or has. Yes, presently about seventy-five percent of it is between the ages of sixteen and thirty-five. So with such a young nation growing up on this… this is the feed, this is what you see, this is what you hear, I’m just a little concerned as to what they will turn out to be?
Sadhguru: I’m sure your parents were concerned too.
JuhiChawla: They (Laughter)… Okay. So, can I…
Sadhguru: I’m sure my parents were very concerned when I was growing up. I was not so concerned when my girl is growing up because it… she looked like she is a generation behind me (Laughs) compared to how I grew up (Laughs). So it was pretty nice and safe. So, every parent has this concern, every generation has this concern that the next generation is going wrong always. I understand what you’re saying - this sudden change if every generation likes to go one step beyond where the previous generation has stepped in, on eve… almost everything just for the sake of doing something different or it’s natural they’ve grown up in one atmosphere they take it to another level.
JuhiChawla: They move to the next level.
Sadhguru: Yes. Next is not always next (Laughs) that’s what you’re saying. Next is not always next, right?
JuhiChawla: Yes. It’s not higher…
Juhi Chawla: It’s somewhere else, it’s just… it’s…
Sadhguru: It’s just next. So, this concern is always there but right now the change that is happening is not the next it is a serious influence because in the last fifteen years the world’s ability to communicate across cultures and borders is so heavy and so unprecedented, nobody has ever been used to these kind of influences before. Okay, never before this level of influence on our young people never before possible no other generation has ever experienced this kind of onslaught from so many directions and the volume of influence is too big. So in terms of changes are happening not, it is not next it is simply somewhere and nobody knows where it is because it’s too complex and too mixed.
Nobody knows where it is including the young people. It’s just a mix of things. So this is because of a sudden onslaught of information and communication. It’s not for us to judge whether it’s good or bad; it is just that definitely this level of information – when I say information, it’s like when we were growing up - I believe it was true for your generation also -we… we never knew what is boredom, okay? This was… there was no such thing, we were just excited about everything that came our way. But you see today twelve-year-old kids, if you tell them what – Ahhm(Gestures).
Juhi Chawla: Yes (Laughs).
Sadhguru: You see they’re just bored because they know the whole cosmos there it’s… they have seen it on their phone screen not even on a computer screen. On the phone screen they’ve seen the entire cosmos. They know everything, things that you do not know they know, you ask them they know it.
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: By information by the time they’re eighteen they have had five love affairs and gone (Laughter). I… in the western world it’s like that here also it’s beginning to happen, okay. So by the time they’re eighteen they’ve seen everything that you need to see with body, mind, emotion, okay. By the time they’re twenty-five what, what next?
Juhi Chawla: What next, yes.
Sadhguru: No, you will see… this is not my wish but this is something that I see the way people’s minds are working, the way they’re being led in with information – I’m not a… by any standards a pessimistic person but I’m just seeing this if this level of information continues and it will multiply many fold for the coming generations, you should not be surprised - in the next fifty to hundred years if fifty percent of the human population choose to commit suicide you should not be surprised because that is what will happen to the mind (Few audience clap). Somebody is clapping, look at this it’s popular (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: No you have just touched a chord and that’s…
Sadhguru: No, I’m saying…
Juhi Chawla:…we think we realize something.
Sadhguru: Today, today… this day more people commit suicide in this world than all the wars and murders and accidents manage to kill. So more people are on self-help already than murderers, war mongers, bad drivers, everything put together, more people are on self-help. And if this level of information onslaught continues on human mind – I know the nature of mind absolutely because I know my mind, I know how it works, what it can handle, what it cannot do, I know it clearly what human mind is. That’s the reason why I don’t have to read people’s books or listen to their entire thing - if they say one sentence I know what their mind is - because I know the structure of human mind entirely. Otherwise I wouldn’t be who I am. So I’m saying this, if this level of information onslaught continues at the same phase or at higher phase, which is possible in the next few years, this will definitely lead to wanting to terminate yourself because there would be nothing to live for. There is no joy and excitement about anything. You please watch your children by the time they’re twelve, fifteen they’re just bored.
You look back at your own life those of you who are over fifty years of age just look back at in… or… on your own life. When you were twelve, fifteen was there any room for you to get bored about anything? Simply you are excited about every little thing, isn’t it?
Juhi Chawla: Yeah.
Sadhguru: Today you will see it’s almost a common feature twelve, fifteen year old kids are just bored only thing is (Gestures like operating phone).
Juhi Chawla: Yes, they are all on iPad’s and iPhones. Yes, they are on gadgets.
Sadhguru: Because we’re talking about Love and Life - all this will not mean nothing because you had one love affair when you were eighteen years of age. You thought this is your life and you’re going to… willing to die for it; whether you died for it or not but at least at that time you thought you’ll die for it, okay? Today by the… on Facebook they had twenty-two love affairs going simultaneously (Laughter). It just means nothing. I… I’m not saying they should have it or not have it; all I’m saying is this will lead to a certain overload on the mind and suddenly a human being will think why am I here? You know that big Shakespearian question “To be or not to be.”
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: This is not the most intelligent question - unfortunately people think so - this is only because you have not been touched by life. You are not a piece of life, you’re just a psychological case, you are full of thoughts and emotions. You have not touched life at all. You think your thoughts and la… emotions are life? No! Your thoughts and emotions are the drama that you are creating in your mind, it is your cinema. You must be able to end it somewhere. If you do not know how to put ‘the end’ then it’s going on endless cinema you’re going crazy. Life is happening here, life is not… you know your work is not life, your family is not life, your career is not life, your cinema is not life, your thought is not life, your emotion is not life. Life is happening here, everything else is accessories to life. Now the frills of life have become larger than life itself. Life is entirely missed; if you touch life within you, then it’s an explosion of energy.
When such a thing never happens to you, because you have information about the whole cosmos on your phone screen, you’ll never be touched by life because too much information, too much thought, even emotion is drying up, too much thought. This has happened. If you look at European philosophy in the last hundred, hundred and fifty years you will see if you read Dostoyevsky you will want to commit suicide. Brilliant, intellectually brilliant but you will wonder why are you alive because intellect is like that. If you wake up in the morning devoid of any… touching any life’s experience within you -don’t think about your child’s face, do not think about the flowers in the garden, birds in the sky, nothing beautiful that ever touched you -just think logically you have to get out of bed that’s not a small feat, you have to brush your teeth, breakfast, go to work, eat, work, eat, sleep again tomorrow morning same thing, next fifty years you have to do the same process every day. If you look at it one hundred percent logically and intellectually you will have no reason to live today morning…tomorrow morning.
It’s only if you’re touched by something suddenly it’s worth living. If you’re not touched by anything then it’s not worth living. What is... what is so worth living about a human being – waking up in the morning, totking… tro… tr… you know troding (treading?) through life, trudging through life everyday eating, sleeping, same rubbish. What is the point? There is no point, unless you’re touched by something, some magic of life if it doesn’t touch you either in the form of love or in the form of a flower or in the form of something within you. If something doesn’t sparkle within you definitely there is a question whether I should live or not, isn’t it? And we are taking humanity in that direction with this overload of information. Information is not knowing, information is just garbage collection.
You just gather things which don’t mean anything to you. You look smart in a tea party but you’re not smart with life, okay. If you’re smart with life you must be blissful, isn’t it (Laughs)? If you’re really smart with life you must be joyful and blissful. Isn’t it so? You’re only smart in a tea party because you know when somebody is talking something, “You know the galaxy Z22, what happens there?” Everybody – WOW! (Laughter) They can also open the internet and the same thing. You see… you think this guy visited the galaxy (Laughter)?
Juhi Chawla: So Sadhguruji then what is it, okay so for all of us, how do we live our days? What is the best way to just go about it?
Sadhguru: What! You want me to tell you what… how you should wake up (Laughs)?
Juhi Chawla: Yes, what to do (Laughs)? Not about brushing the teeth and going to work and coming back and eating. What… give us in clear simple, simple sentences – do this and you will be at least on the way to be blissful or happy or aware or living in a nice conscious way (Laughs).
Sadhguru: See if you… if you just observe, if everybody makes an(a?) little effort, everybody take a little time for this piece of life, okay. Not for your family, not for your career, not for something else, something else, just for this piece of life give it little time because this is the most important piece of life in your life, isn’t it? Yes or no?
Sadhguru: Even if you’re in love with somebody (Laughs), still this is the most important piece of life, isn’t it? So pay some attention to this, how does it happen, why have you taken it for granted? Believe me you’re not going to be here for an…ever. I’ll bless you with a long life but you’re going to fall dead one day (Laughter). Yes or no?
Sadhguru: So do not take this for granted. If you wake up in the morning tomorrow if you wake up in the morning (Laughter) - no this is not my wish but I want you to know of all that people who go to bed tonight, over a million people will not wake up tomorrow morning and tomorrow if you and me wake up tomorrow morning, is it not a fantastic thing? A million people did not wake up. You woke up, is it not a great thing?
Sadhguru: Just look at the ceiling and smile, you are still awake (Laughter & Applause), you’re still there. A million people did not get up in the morning and you woke up and for many, many millions of people somebody, who is dear to them did not wake up. So just check those five, six people around you they all woke up – WOW! It’s a fantastic day (Laughter). You woke up and everybody who matters to you around you woke up, is it not fantastic day?
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: You don’t think so?
Participants: Yes (Laughter)
Juhi Chawla: Yes, yes.
Sadhguru: You don’t seem to think so because the problem is just this you are living with an idea that you are immortal. When I say you’re immortal, you’re not actually thinking you’re immortal but you’re not conscious of your morali… mortality. If you’re not conscious of your mortality, somewhere you think you’re immortal, isn’t it? How many moments in a day are you conscious that you’re mortal? If you were conscious would you have time to crib, would you have time to fight with somebody, would you have time to do some rubbish with your life? If you knew… if you’re conscious that you are mortal you would do nothing other than what is absolutely needed for you and everybody around you.
This one thing if you do if you just remind yourself you… don’t think this is a negative thing, death is not a negative thing; it’s the only thing which has added value to your life. If you’re here forever you would be unbearable (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: Yeah (Laughs), yes, yes.
Sadhguru: Isn’t it? Aren’t we glad everybody dies one day (Laughs)? If you just become conscious of this one thing that always you’re conscious that “I’m mortal,” you don’t have to think “I will die today.” We don’t intend, we want to live as far as possible, just you know “One day I will die.” If you’re just conscious of this one thing you will naturally become spiritual. You will not become spiritual by thinking about God. You will become unrealistic, hallucinatory, you will start talking to somebody, you will start doing all kinds of things. Already people, you know they have ear phones ON and they’re talking you don’t know whether they’ve lost it or they… (Laughter) Ten years ago if somebody was walking on the street talking you would know that he’s lost but today you don’t know (Laughter). Whether they got their head phones on or they just lost it and they’re talking, we cannot make out. But if you are conscious that you’re mortal every moment of your life, spiritual process has begun for you.
If you think of God you may start talking without head phones on, that’s a different problem but if you see that you’re mortal, naturally over a period of time every day, every moment if you remind yourself this is a brief life “I am mortal, one day I will end,” you will see turning spiritual is simply… not turning spiritual is simply impossible. So the one… one of the main reasons, one of the fundamental reasons why that all these things have to be taught to you that she is repeatedly asking this question ‘were you born special, did you have normal birth or not’ is simply because most people have forgotten they are mortal. They think they’re immortal, they may not actually think they’re immortal but they’re not conscious they are mortal. With every step with every breath if they were conscious of this, you know how consciously they would live?
They would become fantastic. Just do this for two days and see you will become something truly fantastic within yourself just this is all if you don’t get the point, come I will arrange for a sadhana in the Isha crematorium (Laughter). Spend one week there looking at all the people dying, remind yourself this is… this is how life is. Really this is why people went and you know always you will see a yogi, you will see Adi yogi or Shiva always sitting in the graveyard because to tell you it is your mortality which makes you, want to know what is the nature of your existence. You really want to know where you came from, where you will go only when it sinks into you all this drama pup - one day it will end but right now you think only others appear in obituary columns, you are only going to read it (Laughter & Applause). Please pay some money and have your name printed tomorrow (Laughter). Oh, okay I’m (Laughs)…
Juhi Chawla: That was… that was simply beautiful.
Sadhguru: That’s all that’s needed - if you want to know the value of life just know that it’s a brief happening. People… see the time, the time that you spend here as life it’s a very relative experience. If you’re truly joyful and ecstatic, it’s horribly brief, believe me. I feel like I was born day before yesterday, see already how I have become (Showing his beard) (Laughter), okay?
Juhi Chawla: (Laughs) Yes, yes.
Sadhguru: But on a particular day if you’re depressed or miserable, one day seems like an endless thing. So, only miserable people have a looooooooong life (Laughter). If you’re a joyful, ecstatic person life is always brief, if you live to be hundred it’s still very brief. For what possibilities a human being carries, for the immensity of what a human being is – it’s too brief a life. If you’re given hundred years, two hundred years it’s still, still do… too brief because before you know what’s happening before you exp… exp… explore a few dimensions of life it’ll be over. It’ll be over, over, okay. Only miserable people have a very long life. They feel it’s very long (Laughs).
Juhi Chawla: Sadhguruji here we have a few questions from the media and two questions that were chosen from the contest which was run by Native Haat which is a new brand from the Times of India who is an associate with this event. This first question is from Prabhas Sundaras… Sundar Sen -where and how do we draw the line between loving unconditionally and becoming a doormat (Laughter)?
Sadhguru: See we need to understand this - what’s being right now passed around as love is generally a mutual benefit scheme -you give me this, I’ll give you that; if you don’t give me that I don’t give you this - this is not said but it’s done (Laughter).
Juhi Chawla: Okay (Laughs).
Sadhguru: It’s done, isn’t it? It’s not said. So, human beings have physical, psychological, emotional, economic, social and various other kinds of needs. To fulfill these things when you say “I love you”, instead of making these things ugly needs that we have to… ugly transactions that we have to do – you give me this, you give me that -to bring some aesthetic and beauty to this transaction, we quote it with a certain amount of sweetness of emotion which we call as love affair where the transactions happen more smoothly because once we are human somehow doing basic transactions in a basic way makes us feel ugly. If you take food with both your hands and eat it, it’s ugly, isn’t it?
We want to eat in a certain way. Similarly to fulfill our physical needs, emotional needs, economic needs we have arrangements, where we can conduct this in a more aesthetic manner. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, this is the fact of life. So, this level of love, I call this… this is enough for… to fulfill the domestic needs of one’s… you know for two people to live together, to fulfill their needs, to produce children, to raise them, domestic level of love affair people can have. But if people want to have a love affair which will bring them to an ultimate union, then not many people are competent to do that. Not people… not many people are ready to have that kind of a love affair where it’ll make two lives into one.
Two becomes actually one in experience that will need something more. Most people are competent of using love to fulfill the domestic needs but to go beyond that they are not ready. When I say they’re not ready, either… I’m not talking about this person or that person. So when one is ready and another is not ready or one is making an effort and another doesn’t have the effort, then it feels like somebody is becoming a doormat. That is what it is that it feels like they’re being exploited but above all, one who is longing to become… use love as a way of ultimate union should not be bothered about being doormat, this and that.
In India we have a culture where by choice people name themselves as slaves. You know Ramdas, Krishnadas, this das, that das what is this? They’re openly saying “I’m a slave, I’m a doormat, I want to be a doormat.” They are not saying, “I’m afraid I’ll be used as a doormat.” They’re saying, “I want to be doormat”(Laughs). So, this is a kind of love that they’re wanting to use to… use for ultimate union, this is not for domestic purposes. So, if you’re looking for ultimate union then love is a different affair. If you’re looking for conducting of domestic affairs then you must manage dignity, who gets what? If anybody is using more than what they should then - if you don’t give me that I don’t give you this, okay? Otherwise if you’re looking for ultimate union you should not think of all these things, that’s a different affair. That’s not for notmur (normal?) social thing. Or in other words love if it crosses… see if you fall in love itself you become vulnerable to somebody.
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: Without becoming vulnerable there is no love affair, you have to fall. When you fall, somebody may raise you or somebody may walk over you (Laughs).
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: But the thing is the… the experience of your life is beautiful because you fell not because they raised you, not because they walked over you, because you could actually have the sense of abandon in you to fall, that was the beauty of your love affair not what they gave you, what they did to you, this – no! The beauty was you sat alone and you think you really loved this person so much you’re willing to die, that was the most beautiful moment (Applause). Not the moment they gave you a big gift, not the moment they gave you a diamond ring, not the moment they said this and that about you – no! You just sat here and you’re willing to die, that was the moment; not just a doormat, you’re willing to be the dust on their feet, okay?
I’m not saying you should be like that – I’m saying where love transformed itself into a devotion. If you fall in love itself you become very vulnerable but there are still some shreds of sanity in love affairs that you can recover. But if you become a devotee there is no sanity left and you cannot recover. So, before you tread such a land you must see whether you’re for it or not. What are your goals first of all? If your goal is to make a life a cautioned, a very measured love affair is good but you’re… your… your thing is you want to dissolve into the process of life - you don’t want to have a good life, you’re not planning to have a good life - you just want to become explosion of life, you don’t care what you get and what you don’t get, then you become a devotee. A devotee means… a devotion means it’s your intention to dissolve into your object of devotion. So a devotee is not expecting whether I’ll become a doormat or a crown on somebody’s head. Whatever I become as long as I can touch your feet or head or whatever, it’s fine with me.
Juhi Chawla: Yeah.
Sadhguru: So that’s a different state of existence. I don’t think somebody who is looking for domestic level of love affair should even ask that question (Laughs & Applause).
Juhi Chawla: Mmm, yes (Applause). We have one question from the social media the Facebook (Laughter). Amit Madan wants to know in this materialistic age the real feeling of love is disappearing from our life, most of the love we receive from others and express to others is superficial. How can we reinforce the real feeling of love in our own life and in others?
Sadhguru: Forget about others. If you… if you learn to be loving by your own nature not because of somebody else or something else - I know the question is coming from Facebook, there’s an enormous possibility (Laughter), you can even love those people who don’t even exist (Laughter), so, I’m saying it’s a tremendous possibility - so (Laughs) if you just become love, not love somebody then you will know the nature of love. If you love somebody it’s a fickle happening because no human being will happen hundred percent the way you want them. Every human being on this planet is going to disappoint you, believe me, not because they’ll do something wrong because nobody can fulfill the unr… unrealic… unrealistic expectation you have of them. It’s simply not possible. Have you been able to fulfill anybody’s expectation I’m asking you entirely?
Partially but never entirely, isn’t it? So nobody else will be able to do it unless you’re a still such a hopeless romantic you’re still waiting that ideal person is going to come from somewhere – no! Believe me whoever comes, I want you to know the ideal people whom you worship, when Krishna was there his wives complained (Laughter), all right?
Juhi Chawla: So there is no hope for us, yes? Please remember this (Laughter), okay. Sadhguruji this is where we open yes the platform, its… anybody has a question this is the moment. Please clear your doubts, any questions at all. The mike… the microphone will come around.
Questioner: Namaskaram Sadhguru.
Sadhguru: Why don’t you light him up (Laughter)? Okay (Laughs).
Questioner: Sadhguru Namaskaram.
Sadhguru: Yes please.
Questioner: My name is Ananth. My question is about marriage, divorce. I’m married…
Sadhguru: No, no, they are two different things (Laughter & Applause).
Questioner: …marriage and divorce. I’m married and I… I had twenty-five years of married life is ON and what you said is like experiencing the life in its profoundness by being… by falling into, is really putting me on the path but then…
Sadhguru: Is she around?
Questioner: Yes, she is around.
Sadhguru: No that… you know because I want to determine the genuineness of the question (Applause).
Questioner: Yeah (Laughs), she’s around, yes she is in the hall.
Sadhguru: It’s okay with her.
Questioner: Yeah. So there were many occasions where I felt like you know divorce or suicide and all that but then the life has been a wonderful experience for me when I really fell in love in the terms what you described but what I see today is many youngsters like many of them they don’t want to marry and few of them who marry there are occasions where they are getting divorced; so would you like to throw some light on this situation Sadhguru?
Sadhguru: What you intended they are successful (Laughter & Applause). See, you need to understand the institution of marriage. One thing is as we said a little while ago it’s about bringing a certain sanctity to the simple basic needs that every human being has. I will repeat there are physical needs, there are psychological needs, there are economic needs, emotional needs, social needs, variety of needs. To fulfill all these things we set up an institution called marriage where all these can be conducted in a sensible manner, otherwise if we did it on the streets like every other creature it would turn ugly for us. And we will feel not good about it. So, s… to bring some sense of organization, some aesthetic, some stability, because man and woman coming together naturally brought fresh life.
The nature of human life, the nature of human offspring is such that because of the possibilities that a human being carries, it is... compared to any other creature, it is the most helpless life which needs maximum amount of support. You could leave a puppy on the street; as long as he gets food, he grows up into a good dog, no problem. But not so with a human being; he doesn’t need just physical support, he needs variety of support and stab… above all the stable situation. Whether there should be marriage in society or not - one will debate when they are eighteen because physical body is asking for freedom, all right. At that time everybody questions – is marriage really needed, why can’t we just live whichever way we want? But when you are three years of age you valued marriage immensely, a stable marriage immensely. Isn’t it so? Yes or no?
Juhi Chawla: Yes, yes.
Sadhguru: Not yours, your parents.
Juhi Chawla: The parents, yes (Laughter).
Sadhguru: When you were three, four of yours… three, four years of age you’re one hundred percent for marriage again when you become forty-five, fifty again you’re hundred percent for marriage between and eighteen and thirty-five you’re questioning the whole process (Laughter & Applause), okay?
Juhi Chawla: That’s true (Laughs).
Sadhguru: Because where the physical body is dominant, at that time if you give in to that then it will question every institution. You will… this is… this is hormone fired freedom okay (Laughter). Your intelligence has been hijacked by hormones, so you question the fundamentals of everything. I’m not saying marriage is the thing but do you have a better alternative? If you have a better alternative, damn the marriage but you have not come up with a better alternative because a stable situation is a must for a child. Once you have a child it’s a twenty year project (Laughter), okay? That is if they do well, if they don’t do well it’s a lifelong project (Laughter & Applause). So if you want to get into such projects at least twenty years there must be a commitment to create a stable situation.
Your whims and fancies will change, your emotions will change; if that is what it is, don’t get into such situations. It’s not compulsory for everybody to get married, it’s good young pe… you were saying people are thinking whether to get married. I’m glad it is not necessary for everybody but if you get into it and if you… especially if you get into children you must understand, it’s a minimum twenty year project whether you like it or you don’t like it. Otherwise you shouldn’t get into those projects, you don’t walk into a project, drop it half way and walk away, isn’t it?
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: If you don’t like it don’t start the project, go for short term projects (Laughter & Applause). I’m saying they have their benefits and they have their problems, yes? They have their benefits and they have their problems. It’s your choice but at least choose consciously. You don’t have to get married because everybody is getting married, you don’t have to talk about marriage and divorce in same breath as if they come together (Laughter). This is a completely an American idea, you’re thinking of marriage and divorce together nobody thought of divorce in this country till recently, isn’t it?
Juhi Chawla: Yes.
Sadhguru: So, if it happens, if something happens… something entirely went wrong and no way to fix two people and they went apart, that’s unfortunate and it’s happened. Why should you ever talk about marriage and divorce in one breath? It’s… it’s a crime. It’s really a crime to think on those lines. But if it so happens something truly went wrong between two people and they have to separate that will any way inevitably happen. You don’t have to plan it at the time of wedding (Laughter).
Questioner: Namaskar Sadhguruji.
Sadhguru: Who is speaking please?
Sadhguru: Where are you?
Questioner: Here, here (Laughter).
Sadhguru: Are you in the upper world?
Juhi Chawla: At the back there.
Sadhguru: Oh okay, please. Yes, please.
Questioner: Namaskar Sadhguruji, I’m Rashmi. Namaskar Juhiji. My question to you is where does the atma go after our death (Laughter) and are we are aliens if it goes abode then are we are aliens on the earth that is what I want to know, I’m always amazed by this?
Sadhguru: This is the question for her (Indicating Juhi Chawla) (Laughter & Applause).
Juhi Chawla: I haven’t figured out life yet so atma is in another session, Sadhguruji.
Sadhguru: Well a whole lot of people are living like aliens. When you live here without any involvement or belonging, you are an alien, isn’t it? Most people are living like that, how many people are involved with what’s around them? They’re walking around as if they are aliens; it’s very true most people are living like aliens. Now about where your atma will go - when are you planning to go anyway (Laughter)? No it depends, you know, you… it depends on the time and date of one’s (Laughter)… please do not get into these things because this is the reason why spiritual process has become ridiculous because all the time people are talking about things which are not yet in their experience. If you must know what to… where your… where you will go after death, I want you to understand, some things you know best only by experience (Laughter & Applause).
Juhi Chawla: Okay.
Sadhguru: If you’re ready, when you’re ready, you tell me (Laughter). Do not get into these kind of things. First of all when you do not even know what is the nature of your existence now when you’re here, how will you know something after your so-called death? Let’s get to know what is the nature of your life and yourself, when you’re here; if you know this (Referring to oneself) you will know everything that you need to know about the nature of this life. Instead of knowing it here you want to know a story about what happens where do I go? You want… you’re looking for a Harry Potter story (Laughter) and I want you to understand I know Juhi keeps on referring to so many other gurus that she’s shopped with (Laughter).
A whole lot of them are feeding this - they will tell you atma will go and sit in pramatma’s lap (Laughter), all right? I’m telling you if I say something… if I say something which is right now not in your present level of experience, what is the option that you have? You can believe what I say or you can disbelieve what I say. If you believe what I say, have you gotten any closer to reality? Or if you disbelieve what I say, have you gotten any closer to reality? No! If you believe me, you will have a positive story to tell. If you disbelieve me, you will have a negative story to tell but it will not evolve you in anyway. If you pay little attention to the life that you are instead of ansing… asking fanciful questions about something which is not in your experience - first of all you do not even know whether there is an atma or not. Yes?
You do not know for sure, isn’t it? It’s just a story book stuff you’re talking, comic book stuff you’re talking about. And when you do not even know whether it exists or not what is the significance of its geography? Where it will go? No! First of all you are here, just try to pay attention to the… what is the nature of your existence. If you do this one thing that I said a few minutes ago, if you understand that you’re mortal – instead of one way is to come up with fanciful questions, that is because you’re thinking intellectually, you still don’t believe you will die, do you understand? You think it’s an academic subject to think about (Laughter), no I want you today before you go to bed sit there on your bed ten minutes remind yourself millions of people don’t wake up tomorrow morning and you could be one of them. If you cannot sleep tonight, I’m glad, because instead of just sleeping on your life, it’s better to stay awake for your life. Yes, if you cannot sleep tonight it’s okay but pay attention – what is this about, suppose tomorrow I do not wake up, what? And so many people around you are not waking up tomorrow morning, they are real people like you and me, isn’t it? Pooof, they’re gone, no sign, what is this? Pay attention to this, don’t look for fanciful answers.
This is something that you have to pay attention. If you understand what is the nature of this life at least if you start seeking what is the nature of this life, from fanciful questions to real seeking will begin. Once seeking is genuine you will never be denied, believe me. One hundred percent - if your seeking is genuine you will not be denied the truth, one hundred percent (Applause).
Juhi Chawla: There is time for just one more question.
Sadhguru: Please whoever got the microphone? Shout your question (Laughs) (Everybody starts shouting). Oh, no, no, no, no, no only upstairs people can shout (Laughter)
Questioner: I have the mike in my hand can I please proceed?
Sadhguru: Okay, please. Please, please who is this? Where are you?
Questioner: Sadhguru Namaskaram. Namaskaram Sadhguru. Namaskaram Juhi Mam. Thank you so much Sadhguru, thank you so much for being for all of us, thank you so much (Applause). I have a special request for you, could you please, please say at least two sentences about Vijji Maa for us today, please it’s a special request and my second question is you mentioned about survival and you talked about aesthetics of life. I would like… I would request you to elaborate on aesthetics of life and the third question is for my friend - I don’t know whether you will answer it or not but I just want to mention it over here because she has requested me to do so. Her question is what is the purpose of this universe?
Sadhguru: What is the purpose of?
Sadhguru: Oh! Tell your friend I didn’t make it (Laughter).
Questioner: Thank you so much.
Sadhguru: Why am I being blamed for these things (Laughter)? I… the only thing I have done is I’ve figured the nature of my life and by figuring the nature of this life I know by inference every life has happened the same way, not just every life, the very cosmos has happened the same way. If you know the nature of this life from its origin to its ultimate you know the nature of everything by inference, (From here transcribed from audio extracted from video, time 142:47) everything that’s worth knowing. So, tell your friend I didn’t make this Universe so don’t blame me for such big things. I just figured my way through my life and we should figure it… if you figure it you will see the most important thing that’s happening in your life right now is that you’re alive, nothing else. Not that stocks have gone up today that’s not the most important thing, not your love affair, not this and that – if you don’t understand what I’m saying suppose tomorrow you lost… I’m not saying you must wish… I’m not wishing you must loose but suppose tomorrow you lost half your money and you’re feeling depressed and your mind says I want to die. Close your mouth, hold your nose like this (With hands blocking nose) for two minutes, your body says to hell with your money, I want to live (Laughter/Applause). Tomorrow you found your lll… love affair collapsed and your mind says I want to die, check (Sadhguru blocks his nose and closes mouth) (Laughter). The life within you says to hell with your love affair, I want to live. You che… every time you feel little suicidal or depressed just check (Again blocks mouth and nose), the life within you says to hell with all these things, I want to live. So, I want to know the most important that’s happening to you right now is life itself, not the fancy thoughts that you have, not the emotions that you have, not financial arrangements or family arrangements or whatever rubbish you have built around you - these are all accessories to life, these are all frills. Frills are so much you’re missing the skirt, that’s the whole problem with you (Laughter).
Yes, so much frill fundamental things are forgotten (Laughter). So this is the most important thing. So here is a, here is a this is the first and only song that I wrote in Tamil about changing the direction of your life towards your life, right now for most people life means their job, life means the new house they’re building, life means the car that they bought, life means their wife, their husband, their children – No! Life means what’s throbbing here (Pointing to himself), not even your body, not your mind, not your thought, not your emotion. What is right now throbbing here (Pointing to himself) this is life. Because this is ON everything else seems to be meaningful. If this one stops nothing around you means any damn thing to you or to anybody. Yes or no