Sadhguru is interviewed by Simon Kemp, MD of We Are Social, about marketing, business, commerce and the direction they have taken today. He offers a completely different perspective on how the economic machine can be fixed to create a more sustainable and inclusive world.

Full Transcript:

Interviewer: So I think the first one that I wanted to pick up _____ (Unclear) and it was the bit that I found most inspiring from your session this morning was you… you made a lot of play on the difference between the solidity inside and then the w… kind of the personality and the identity that we portray to the outside world. And I feel the… some of the biggest challenges we face as marketers and in brands is that we spend a huge amount of time thinking about the way we portray ourselves to the outside world, but we don’t we really get ourselves right inside first. From the experience that you’ve had dealing with individuals about that, what advice would you give to business people and to brands about how they can start the process of getting right inside first?

Sadhguru: See the fundamental flaw in this entire process is, without enhancing yourself you’re trying to enhance your activity.

Interviewer: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Sadhguru: It's like… You’re from UK, hmm?

Interviewer: Scotland, yes.

Sadhguru: Scotland. You take a junk Vauxhall and try to drive it on the F1 track. It's bound to fall apart. Instead of dreaming of winning an F1 race, if you build a machine which is capable of doing whatever your intelligence allows to build, whatever kind, if you build one, then it’ll do whatever it does. Whether it wins or not is subject to what others have done (Laughs). See whether you win a race or not, simply depends on how good or bad other people are.

Interviewer: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Sadhguru: But when we do something, are we functioning from the highest possibility within us or from the lowest possibility or somewhere in between is, the big question.

Interviewer: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Sadhguru: And the biggest question in human life is you do not know what is your highest possibility.

For every other creature on this planet, nature has drawn two lines, within that they live and go. For the human being there is only bottom line, there’s no top line. So it doesn’t matter what you become, you still don’t know whether you have hit the peak or not. Only those people who are only interested in winning races with other crippled people (Laughs) - they have hit the peak

Interviewer: Okay.

Sadhguru: But any genuine human being who is exploring his own nature, you never know if you’ve hit your peak because there is still room, do… no matter what you have done. So, enhancing the machine, this human mechanism, is most important. Whether you win the race or not, whether you did this or not is not important. If you have this (Referring to oneself) enhanced, everything that you do will be enhanced. People around you think you are super human simply because everything that you do seems to be of a different nature, of a different quality that they can't imagine. Not because you’re intending to… to do things better than other people, simply because you have spent time to enhance this one (Referring to oneself).

So this is a fundamental flaw in the attitude with which people are entering the world. Instead of building a great mechanism which will… whatever it does will be of a great possibility, people are trying to do great things, which is (Laughs)… which is going to kill them. That’s why successful people are miserable. Somehow they have managed to do something and it's taking such a big toll on them (Laughs).

Simon Kemp: How might we unwind some of that? That’s a… What I… What I find great about the way that you express some of this is you… you have a great confidence which clearly comes through from the way that you….

Sadhguru: No confidence.

Simon Kemp: Maybe I should re-express that then. You… You clearly talk from the heart. This is somebody who is….

Sadhguru: Yes. So that’s the thing. The only quality is clarity. People think confidence is a substitute for clarity. That’s a (the?) biggest disaster.

Simon Kemp: Okay.

Sadhguru: The great disaster in the plonet… planet is people who have no clarity have confidence (Laughs).

Simon Kemp: Nice. So that _____ (Unclear)… That maps beautifully back to a lot of the brands is that where they don’t have clarity they represent confidence (Sadhguru laughs) in the activities that they do. But I think that goes back to ….

Sadhguru: So that’s why all the loud advertising because there is no clarity but there is confidence (Laughs).

Sadhguru: See, you are who you are only because of whatever you might have perceived. What you’ve…. What you have not perceived is not you, isn't it?

Simon Kemp: I like that.

Sadhguru: You… See, whether you’re consciously aware of this or not, how people experience you right now is – whatever you have perceived, in whichever way it's finding expression, that is what people’s experience of you are and that is what your experience of yourself is. Whatever you have perceived, that’s all. Instead of enhancing perception, we are trying to enhance, again, expression. You’re (Laughs)…You’re in the social s… media stuff. Everybody wants to express anything and everything, no matter whether they know something or don’t know something, everybody wants to express. This is the age of expression without perception. It's a disaster (Laughs).

People are becoming who they are because of what they express, not because of what they have perceived. If… You are who you are bec… because essentially in life, the nature of life is such, only what eh… what you have perceived is you. But right now, because you pick bits and pieces all over the world, you can express all kinds of things that you don’t know. See, today a twelve-year-old child looks bored (Simon Kemp laughs). Never before it was so, it's only in this generation because he’s seen the cosmos through his phone screen. He knows everything, there is nothing he does not know.
Simon Kemp: The facts are all there but maybe they have not…

Sadhguru: They’re not facts (Laughs). They are not facts. You… You call them facts. All right, you call them facts if you want to but I’m saying me knowing how many million light- years away is a particular galaxy which we call as Z-1-27 is not knowledge.

Simon Kemp: Yeah.

Sadhguru: Whether it's ten million light-years or hundred million light-years makes no difference because in my perception there is no way to experience a light-year first of all. It's… It's all conceptual. It is not experiential. Unless your perception is experiential it doesn’t enhance you. It is just accumulation. Like people accumulate wealth, money, useless things all over, trinkets, people are accumulating knowledge or information – trinkets which will make them look smart in a tea party.

Simon Kemp: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Sadhguru: Only in comparison to somebody else who does not know where galaxy Z-1-27 is. And even this guy who was talking about it doesn’t know where the hell it is. And you don’t even know whether it is or not, okay (Simon Kemp laughs)? Lot of things that you’re seeing in your telescope which is a million light-years away may not actually exist.

Simon Kemp: Okay. So based on that… that concept of…

Sadhguru: It's not a concept.

Simon Kemp: So… Oh… Okay (Laughter). (Laughter). The idea of the experience versus the perception – I want to look… I want to look a little bit more about that and what you were talking about, the accumulation of…

Sadhguru: Information.

Simon Kemp: Which is a big problem for our industry. We are obsessing about things like big data, we’re obsessing about all the gadgets that we collect and we’re missing that experience bit that you talk about. So we have amassed however many millions of bytes of data that… which em… just now _____ (Unclear) which was talking about, but we’re not using them to understand. How would you advise people….

Sadhguru: When you bite so much, you will bloat (Laughs).

Simon Kemp: This is true.

Sadhguru: …and get unhealthy (Laughs).

Simon Kemp: This is true, it's not a good thing in any context. How… How do we translate that desire to learn into the action that makes the learning valuable? Where do we help people move along that journey?

Sadhguru: See, in this question, there’s a fundamental flaw.

Simon Kemp: Okay (Laughs).

Sadhguru: In the sense, because you belong to a generation which is goal-oriented.

Simon Kemp: True.

Sadhguru: Goal-oriented means you are interested in the mango, the sweetness of the mango but you are not interested in the tree.

Simon Kemp: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Sadhguru: …because slowly you are living in a generation where mango comes from a supermarket, not from a tree.

Simon Kemp: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Sadhguru: It may so happen in a laboratory they will make a mango, all right. But if you want mangoes in your garden, you don’t have to think mangoes, you don’t have to meditate upon mangoes. You have to think soil, filth, manure, water, sunlight. No mangoes in your mind – you have only manure, soil, water, sunlight in your mind, mangoes will happen. Or in other words, you are too interested in the consequence but not in the process which causes the consequence. This is goal-orientedness. In yoga, we say if you have one eye on the goal, you have only one eye to find your way – it's inefficient. If you use both your eyes to find your way, according to your capability, you will go as far as you can go. That means you are not concerned how far somebody’s going, you want to go as far as you can go. That’s what you’re interested in. But right now, this goal-orientedness means you’re only interested in going one step further than your neighbor.

Simon Kemp: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Sadhguru: Or in other words, the only joy that you have in your life is somebody is doing worse than you. I think that’s a sick mind.

Simon Kemp: I agree with you, absolutely (Both laugh). I’m going to… I’m going to keep pressing you on that question though – how do we help people see past that mentality which is holding us back? What… What can we suggest to our peers in marketing to change them away from this goal-oriented…?

Sadhguru: From digital to divine (Laughs).

Simon Kemp: Where do we find the divine? Because I… I love the fact that you’re talking about we cannot be goal-oriented but at the same time many businesses face the imposition of goals from others who determine our ability to survive which I kind of know you’re going to say flawed and I would agree with it. But nonetheless, we need to help people to see the alternative to what is flawed. ____ (Unclear).

Sadhguru: See, tell me… tell me one thing. You can look at Mr. Bolt, you know (Laughter)? You could look at Mr. Bolt for the inspiration, all right? But if you try to run like him, you will break your lig… legs – that’s all that’ll happen. For inspiration, you can look at Mr. Bolt – perfectly fine. You can look at Mr. Sachin Tendulkar for inspiration. You try to go and face a ball which is coming at hundred-and-sixty kilometers per hour – a hard ball – you will kill yourself, really. Most people know cricket only on television, so they think it’s a nice game. Go and stand there – it's the most violent game.

Simon Kemp: It’s terrifying.

Sadhguru: Projectiles are coming at you at tremendous speed, giving you a fraction of a second to react and hit the ball. Because they see it only on television, they think it's a nice, beautiful game. No, it's… Among all the games that are popular today in the world, it is the most dangerous game. Nowhere else any hard ball is coming at you at that speed. Really, it… Most of the time coming at your head (Both laugh).

Simon Kemp: There is a certain degree of animosity the way that this (Sounds like - has been/is being?)…

Sadhguru: No, no. I’m… I’m saying because somebody mastered that with…. Well, he was talking to you about the level of dedication right from his childhood, how he’s involved. So Tendulkar is Tendulkar, all right? You can use him as an inspiration but you don’t try to do what he is doing today afternoon because you will be dead. Yes. So, you can use a high level of whatever, somebody has set a goal, as an inspiration. Somebody is running a hundred meters in eight seconds, you can use it as a (an?) inspiration. Don’t try to do it (Simon Kemp laughs). It's like a Vauxhall trying to be a Ferrari (Laughs).

Simon Kemp: Maybe. Right. It's that… that benchmark that we obsess so much about, marketers, that you want to be like them and you think that replicating everything that they do becomes a dangerous….

Sadhguru: Mhmm (Indicating agreement). That’s…. That’s the biggest mistake because who knows? Maybe you can hit the ball better than Tendulkar. Right now, why do you want to limit yourself to Tendulkar standards? There was a time, nobody believed that you will reach hundred in a cricket game, only after thirty-five to forty overs. I remember this change that happened. First time Sanath Jayasuriya hit the ball – within the first twenty overs, hundred. Now people are hitting it within eight, nine overs. Okay (Laughs)?

Simon Kemp: (Sounds like – The rules have changed?)

Sadhguru: Because they’re not thinking about what somebody did. You hit the ball according to your capability. Who knows, maybe you will hit it better than Tendulkar, we don’t know. The possibility is there. In reality, there may be a distance, that’s different. But the possibility is there. So if you become goal-oriented, your goals are always determined by other people’s capabilities.

Simon Kemp: ____ (Unclear)

Sadhguru: You will never do what you could have done. Maybe you can't hit a ball, maybe you could do something else way better than anybody else. But you will never do that because you go on trying to hit the ball that you can't hit (Laughs).

Simon Kemp: So this comes back to what you were saying in your session earlier about the difference between the… I’m gonna’ embarrass myself by maybe getting these names wrong, but you… you talked about the memory that we have versus the chitta, is that correct?

Sadhguru: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Simon Kemp: So the… this concept of the memory-less intelligence that you talked about. How can a marketer access that because we are probably some of the most insecure people…?

Sadhguru: Market people cannot access it (Laughter).

Simon Kemp: ____ (Unclear)

Sadhguru: Human… Human beings can, markets cannot.

Simon Kemp: How does the human being that wants to be the marketer…

Sadhguru: few times when I was at the Economic Forum, the World Economic Forum, people keep on referring to India as ‘emerging market.’ I said, “Don’t refer to us as a market. We are not a marketplace.” Once you think somebody is (a?) market, how are you going to approach them? You’re going to put some nonsense that you have created, try to convince them they must drink this, or eat this, or buy this, or use it, or whatever. If I saw you as a human being and I’m concerned about you and your well-being, I would see what you need. If I do what I… what you need… If I manufacture what you need, I don’t have to market it. Market-man will go out. Manufacturing is all that’s needed (Laughs). But right now, you’re doing something that people don’t need and you have to convince them that they need it.

It's very clear, even a kindergarten child knows that this body doesn’t need carbon dioxide, it needs oxygen. But somebody is putting carbon dioxide in the bottle and calling it ‘the real thing’ (Laughter), so they need marketing. Marketing department is bigger than the manufacturing because you’re trying to convince somebody carbon dioxide is good for you. Well, you may. You may convince a generation. A whole generation was convinced smoking tobacco is the best thing you could do. If you’re a man you must smoke, otherwise you’re not a man. Yes or no? A whole generation believed, “If I don’t smoke and blow the smoke in your face, I’m not man enough.” But now suddenly, it's become no good. So this is what the marketing men will do.

It's very clear, even a kindergarten child knows that this body doesn’t need carbon dioxide, it needs oxygen. But somebody is putting carbon dioxide in the bottle and calling it ‘the real thing’ (Laughter), so they need marketing. Marketing department is bigger than the manufacturing because you’re trying to convince somebody carbon dioxide is good for you. Well, you may. You may convince a generation. A whole generation was convinced smoking tobacco is the best thing you could do. If you’re a man you must smoke, otherwise you’re not a man. Yes or no? A whole generation believed, “If I don’t smoke and blow the smoke in your face, I’m not man enough.” But now suddenly, it's become no good. So this is what the marketing men will do.

Simon Kemp: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Sadhguru: They’re trying to sell something that people may not need. Instead of looking at someone as market, if you look at them in (as?) human beings, with some concern, you would know what they need. If you manufacture that, you don’t have to market it, they will stand in a queue (Laughs).

Simon Kemp: So I’m going to use somebody else’s words in response to that ’cause this is something I’ve… have hopefully believed for a long time as well. I… A friend of mine said that as marketers, we’ve got the stop trying to make people want things and we’ve got to try and make the things that people want (Slight audio disturbance). It's fundamentally obvious to me and yet, an int…

Sadhguru: I’m saying largely market-men will get eliminated. Manufacturing and people – in between little marketing. Both you and me are manufacturing something that he wants. But now I’m trying to tell him what I’m manufacturing is really what you want, not what this guy is doing. Actually, that’s the truth (Laughter).

Simon Kemp: So that leads me in very big way to that… one of the other questions I wanted to ask about. We… You talked a lot about all the gadgets that we have access to. It's amazing technology and yet we failed to use the best of the gadgets that we have which is our own brain. We are still struggling to understand….

Sadhguru: Not that we are not using it, we are using it in a very skewed way.

Simon Kemp: Right. We’re… We’re not able to listen correctly, we’re not able to understand what it is that those people want, even though we have access to all these amazing things. I use a lot of social media which, in theory, allows me to listen to the conversations of millions of people at any given time. I get… I find it very difficult to….

Sadhguru: Gossip gone global (Laughs).

BSimon Kemp: Which… There’s a lot of… a lot of gossip on that. There’s… We talked a lot yesterday about the food photos. It's… It’s (a?) fascinating thing that two hundred million people have taken photos of food and uploaded them to Instagram (Referring to a social networking service).Another question is why we are doing this but that’s…

Sadhguru: Because food looks prettier than the people who eat them (Laughter).

Simon Kemp: Slightly disconcerting concept again ____ (Unclear) true (Laughter).

Sadhguru: No, no, if people are taking pictures of the food they eat and putting it on, obviously they think it looks prettier than them (Laughs).

Simon Kemp: Well, we have access to the insights that, that shares about what they believe is pretty and what they enjoy in life, but we’re not using it. So…
Sadhguru: See all this is happening… I mean, leave the jokes apart. This is because people are trying… Because now they found a means, a technological means to find expression. Expression more than perception means marketing department is bigger than manufacturing.

Simon Kemp: Okay.

Sadhguru: That’s all that’s happening.

Simon Kemp: What would then the perception look like?

Sadhguru: Hmm? See, what would perception look like? See, there are only five instruments of perception right now for you – seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching. So what you perceive through these five senses, a certain process, an amalgamated process of these five senses… Right now, you’re sitting here. You’re seeing, you’re hearing, I hope you’re not smelling anything (Laughter), but actually it's all happening. Smelling, sensations, heat, cold – all these things are happening. You may not be conscious of it unless it becomes acute.

Simon Kemp: Right.

Sadhguru: Otherwise if you walk from there to there, there are twenty-five different kind of smells – minimum I’m saying – but most of the time, you are not conscious of it unless something becomes very pleasant or very unpleasant. So every moment, all the five senses are recording phenomenal amount of information. Now, the process… the processing of this information is happening from a certain prejudice. When I say prejudice, the identity causes prejudice. If you are functioning from an identity, whatever – you are English, I’m Indian, I’m… somebody’s man, somebody’s woman – this is all prejudice. People think they’re broadminded. Well, it's a broad prejudice (Laughter). Yes.

Simon Kemp: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Sadhguru: The moment you’re identified with something, there is a certain prejudice attached to it, you can't help it. That’s the way the intellect works because intellect cannot function without identity. If you take away identity, your thoughts will become still. That’s all it is. That’s ot… It’s called meditation. If you can sit here without being identified with the physiological or psychological or the worldly process that’s going on, you will become meditative. Because you’re not identified with anything, your intellect becomes quiet. As long as you’re identified, do what you want, you cannot stop it. It's like you’ve eaten bad food, then you want to control the gas – it won’t work (Laughs). It’ll anyway happen. So now you’re identified with something that you are not. See, you belonging to a certain nation, you belonging to this or that is something that we’ve made up, all right? What we make up, we must manage. But what we made up has gone out of control. You identified to such a point you really think it’s is (it?) – you’re willing to live and die for it.

Simon Kemp: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Sadhguru: So because of that identity, what you call as my mind or intellect has become prejudiced in a certain way. From that prejudice, it's working. It's okay for survival process. This prejudice is good for survival process. But if you’re wanting to look for clarity, you want to see things the way they are, you want to perceive life just the way it is, not the way… not as an Englishman, not as an Indian, not as a man, not as a woman, but you want to experience life just the way it is, then you must have the ability to distance yourself from identity and just look at it. It's not that you’re not at all doing it. Every human being is becoming released from their identity at some point of involvement with something, okay?

Simon Kemp: Yeah.

Sadhguru: But it's not a conscious process, it's not by choice. Once in a way, it's happening. Those moments, they produce something significant. Rest of the time, they’re just a mess. I’m talking about. If you have a machine, every time you touch it, it must fire, all right? Intermittently it fires once in a way, that’s not a great machine. The same goes for the human being. If you have a spark of genius, you must be able to make it happen… spark all the time, twenty-four hours. Otherwise it fires once in a way, accidentally, then you become astrological. You’re looking for the right position of the planets for you to fire (Laughs).

Simon Kemp: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Sadhguru: That’s… That’s inefficiency. That inefficiency is coming because perception is blocked.

Simon Kemp: Is there a way to manage that?

Sadhguru: Oh yes. There’s an entire science. As there is a science and technology to create external situations the way we want it, there is a whole science and technology to create inner situation the way we… way you want it. This is what we’re calling as Inner Engineering – to engineer your interiority the way you want.

Simon Kemp: Okay. And looking at that in a bit more detail, the bit you were talking there about stepping away from the identity, which I think is… is really interesting because brands are all about creating their identity and yet (Sadhguru laughs) I love the way that you’re saying it's not until we get out of our identity that we can see the bigger opportunities and how to become what we want. How… How can we help people to understand how to unravel our identity? How do we step away from all the things that we spent time creating?

Sadhguru: See, this question is coming from a fundamental that you believe that everything can be fixed intellectually.

Simon Kemp: Yes.

Sadhguru: No, it cannot be (Simon Kemp laughs). As I said, when I was speaking in the morning, the other dimension of intelligence within you, if you… I think today, people are beginning to talk about emotional - what?

Unknown Speaker: Emotional intelligence.

Simon Kemp: _____ (Unclear)

Sadhguru: Emotional intelligence, not just IQ, EQ and whatever.

Simon Kemp: Yeah.

Sadhguru: This is just rudimentary steps – taking at least one small step but a rudimentary step. This is essentially a… a very deep-rooted Western malaise which has gotten into everybody today, across because all of us are going through Western education. We may be living in India but our education is completely, unfortunately English (Laughs) because ‘intellect is supreme’ – this is a European idea.

In India, we have not given much significance to intellect because your intellect always functions from a limited data that you have gathered. Your thought process happens only from the limited data that you have. If you function from your thought process, nothing new will ever happen in your life because you’re just r… recycling the old, all the time. Maybe you can produce permutations and combinations of that. Here, our focus has always been how to enhance your perception. Don’t worry about your thought, whether it looks smart or dumb, it… that’s not the issue. How to (Sadhguru burps) enhance the perception? If your ability to perceive life is enhanced, naturally your ability to act in the world is naturally enhanced without any effort.

Simon Kemp: So, a very simple way that people could start to experience… Because you know how people are. People like to experience it once. And once they see it, they believe it, and then they do it. What's the… the smallest catalyst that we can encourage our peers and our friends in the industry…?

Sadhguru: We can give you a simple, a twelve-minute simple process of meditation.

Simon Kemp: Okay.

Sadhguru: It's available on the web. We can give you a CD. It's freely available. Millions of people have practiced this – very simple form. If they do that and if it works, they can do something more serious.

Simon Kemp: Twelve-minute.

Sadhguru: It's called Isha Kriya. You just go on the net and say Isha Kriya, it’ll come up. There’s a phone app. You can put it on your phone.

Simon Kemp: Phone app!

Sadhguru: Yoga is a technology for well-being, okay?

Simon Kemp: All right.

Sadhguru: Actually our tagline is ‘Inner Engineering, Technologies for Well-being.’ You don’t need to believe it. Why I’m insisting it's a technology is it doesn’t matter who you are, whether… what gods you believe in or you disbelieve in, which part of the geography you come from, if you learn to use it, it works. That’s the beauty of technology. All the other things of going to heaven, what's being offered by people, you have to believe something that you don’t know. Here, if you learn to use it, it works and that’s the nature of yoga. If you learn to use it, it’ll work for you. It doesn’t matter who you are, where you come from, what you believe or disbelieve. So these are technologies for well-being. Making use of outs… external technologies to disseminate the same is a natural outcome. It's a very natural thing to do.

So, for the first time in the history of humanity, our ability to reach human beings on this planet is like never before. The speed and the scope of it is unimaginable, just twenty-five years ago or even ten years ago, if you ask me. But people tell me – I don’t know if this is factually correct but people tell me – sixty percent of the inner… internet space is covered by pornographic material. I don’t know if I’m right on the figure but people tell me so. I think that’s a crime. So I’m making an effort – w… technologies for inner well-being of the human being must dominate the space so that human beings learn how to be well, that the tools for well-being must be in the hands of every human being, not in the hands of a priest, or a pope, or a god for that matter. The tools for well-being must be in the hands of individual human beings, not in the hands of organizations, gurus, popes, no matter what. I’m saying the tools for your well-being must be in your hands, not in my hands. Unfortunately, you left it in my hands, I’m trying to see… put it into your hands. So, please give us the digital support. (Simon Kemp laughs).

Simon Kemp: Gladly.

Sadhguru: (Laughs)…to make that happen.

Simon Kemp: But I did want to just go back to one of the things that it… it touches something that I’ve been frustrated about for a while. And I know you say (Sounds like – an end?) to frustration’ so I… I got to level this one with you and ask for some advice. This… This idea that the Western way of doing things is in conflict with a sense of individual, I don’t know, what you call it. Enlightenment feels like a bit of a… a loaded word. But this idea that the Western way of looking at things, of education, of success, and all this kind of stuff is… it feels, like you were saying earlier, there’s a… a competition to… there’s a conflict to… How do we help people that have been indoctrinated and… I grew up in that culture and I find it very difficult to unravel all of the things that I’ve learned and I’ve been taught and all this kind of stuff. How do we help people to get past the fear that is involved in seeing an alternative way of entire life because that’s what everything until now has been built on. It's overcoming that fear. How… How do we help people to come past that?

Sadhguru: See, the basic issue is do you want to look good, or feel good, or be good within yourself?

Simon Kemp: A lot of the Western world sees them as the (Overlapping conversation).

Sadhguru: It's about looking good. Looking good is more important than what's happening within you.

Simon Kemp: _____ (Unclear) (Overlapping conversation)

Sadhguru: Even if you’re a tortured human being within you, you just have to look smart and nice and like that.

Simon Kemp: Mhmm (Indicating agreement).

Sadhguru: This has to be taken away from an early childhood. Looking good is not important. What is your experience of life? Is your experience of life great or not? This is what is important. This value change must happen. It's not something that you can change overnight in the world but those who suffer immensely will change. I see that suffering coming because suffering is getting younger and younger. There was a time, only old people used to be worried. Now you see a twelve-year-old boy is seriously worried. So when that kind of suffering comes, looking good is not important. When suffering becomes unbearable, people will understand looking good is not important, how I experience my life is important. You hear this talk all over, isn't it, these days? Still the necessary corrections have not been made but people are beginning to talk. So this is the time technologies for inner well-being are transmitted. The time is right.

Simon Kemp: Good (Sadhguru laughs). Thank you so much for your time.